Ascension being individual for each class is unnecessary grind.

[Rektalizer]

I am currently going for ascension 20 achievment and I started with ironclad cause you can speedrun with him pretty efficiently. Then it hit me when I realised that max ascension is personal for each character. I feel like it's not a good game design right there. If there ever will be a sequel to this magnificent game, I wish they make it so you can progress through ascensions more freely.

[Khor]

C'mon, there are more fun things than nitpicking grammar

[trial_by_fire]

Originally posted by Khor:

C'mon, there are more fun things than nitpicking grammar

Well, you're right.

It really depends on the post I suppose.

Believe it or not, I'm not that nit picky on grammar, but for some posts that annoy me, I might be annoying.

Especially if I feel that they are nit picky.

[Rektalizer]

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

The reasonable way imo to make this funnier would be sharing ascension levels between characters, so you will have at least some gameplay variety.

How does it make it funnier?

Makes it funnier by means I will go my first 7 ascension levels as ironclad, then 7 more as silent, 5 as defect and then will finish with watcher. Or will completely randomize who and which ascension I go through with. Instead I had to go 20 times as an Ironclad making same broken deck.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Originally posted by Khor:

C'mon, there are more fun things than nitpicking grammar

Well, you're right.

It really depends on the post I suppose.

Believe it or not, I'm not that nit picky on grammar, but for some posts that annoy me, I might be annoying.

Especially if I feel that they are nit picky.

Nitpicking grammar isn't usually fun. Making fun of typos or misspellings, on the other hand....

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

Instead I had to go 20 times as an Ironclad making same broken deck.

You're the one who chose to beat it with the same broken deck each time, rather than branching out and trying new tactics. That's not the game's fault. How many attempts did each ascension take you, and did you try to build the same type of deck every single time?

[Rektalizer]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

You're the one who chose to beat it with the same broken deck each time, rather than branching out and trying new tactics. That's not the game's fault. How many attempts did each ascension take you, and did you try to build the same type of deck every single time?

Ofc, game can't be made in mind that it will be fun if you go other ways than just play it normally. Like speedrunning, "speedrunning" plat, and etc. Yet if I speedrun plat, it restricts me in having at least some fun with three broken decks, and instead I get to use only one.

Each ascension first attempt with I think 2 unlucky starts where I didn't got at least one crucial card soon enough and died on Act I boss. So total of 22 runs with same deck (ofc with some little variations), and ofc if you try to finish it asap you don't go for other decks but the strongest one on the character you play as. That's why I said that the only variety for me would be using 3 broken decks for 3 characters respectively instead of 1.

P.S. I did not count failed attempts where I chose boss relic instead of starting one, and it gave me one that just don't work for my deck — Snecko Eye, Fusion Hammer, Busted Crown and etc.

[Khor]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Well, you're right.

It really depends on the post I suppose.

Believe it or not, I'm not that nit picky on grammar, but for some posts that annoy me, I might be annoying.

Especially if I feel that they are nit picky.

Nitpicking grammar isn't usually fun. Making fun of typos or misspellings, on the other hand....

Right, my bad
He`s probably just in his late 60s and misspelled Funner

[mldb88]

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

Originally posted by LHGreen:

You're the one who chose to beat it with the same broken deck each time, rather than branching out and trying new tactics. That's not the game's fault. How many attempts did each ascension take you, and did you try to build the same type of deck every single time?

Ofc, game can't be made in mind that it will be fun if you go other ways than just play it normally. Like speedrunning, "speedrunning" plat, and etc. Yet if I speedrun plat, it restricts me in having at least some fun with three broken decks, and instead I get to use only one.

Each ascension first attempt with I think 2 unlucky starts where I didn't got at least one crucial card soon enough and died on Act I boss. So total of 22 runs with same deck (ofc with some little variations), and ofc if you try to finish it asap you don't go for other decks but the strongest one on the character you play as. That's why I said that the only variety for me would be using 3 broken decks for 3 characters respectively instead of 1.

P.S. I did not count failed attempts where I chose boss relic instead of starting one, and it gave me one that just don't work for my deck — Snecko Eye, Fusion Hammer, Busted Crown and etc.

Sounds like it’s more your fault for turning the game into a luck based mission instead of doing the much faster method of actually working with what the game gives you and building a solid and well rounded deck. Ironically enough I think your attempt at “speedrunning” the plat (or at least the A20 part of it) slowed you down more then playing it normally. The rest of the achievements like channeling 5 plasma in a turn of killing donu with feed etc though yea those are mostly luck since some require specific setups or seeing both a specific card and boss.

While I do get some people aren’t a fan of the ascension grind for other reasons, your reason is entirely self imposed.

Also some of those starting relics that “don’t fit with your deck” are incredible starts. I’d ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kill for a snekko eye start on most characters on A20.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

Ofc, game can't be made in mind that it will be fun if you go other ways than just play it normally. Like speedrunning, "speedrunning" plat, and etc. Yet if I speedrun plat, it restricts me in having at least some fun with three broken decks, and instead I get to use only one.

What...? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but there's more than just 3 "broken builds" on Ironclad. Also, I don't think what you said is really how it works, but it's hard to tell.

Originally posted by mldb88:

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

P.S. I did not count failed attempts where I chose boss relic instead of starting one, and it gave me one that just don't work for my deck — Snecko Eye, Fusion Hammer, Busted Crown and etc.

Also some of those starting relics that “don’t fit with your deck” are incredible starts. I’d ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kill for a snekko eye start on most characters on A20.

Yeah, especially if you're climbing to A20 with Ironclad. Snecko Eye can easily just carry you.

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

Each ascension first attempt with I think 2 unlucky starts where I didn't got at least one crucial card soon enough and died on Act I boss. So total of 22 runs with same deck (ofc with some little variations), and ofc if you try to finish it asap you don't go for other decks but the strongest one on the character you play as. That's why I said that the only variety for me would be using 3 broken decks for 3 characters respectively instead of 1.

Again, it's entirely your choice to play that way, and while you may think it's optimal, it's probably quite sub-optimal. Also, speed-running the trophies (and if you're trying to do that, why the hell did you get this game in the first place) requires a bare minimum of 27 runs and a LOT of luck, and that still doesn't get you 100% game completion. For that, I think you'd need a bare minimum of 9-12 more runs and at least 2 loops in endless, and again, LOTS of luck.

In short, you were never gonna do this in under 40 runs/attempts. Anyway, what the hell kind of deck were you building, that you somehow managed to get exactly what you needed, and you had it work out every single time? What, were you doing seeded runs or something?

[Rektalizer]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

Also some of those starting relics that “don’t fit with your deck” are incredible starts. I’d ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kill for a snekko eye start on most characters on A20.

I sometime think we all play different games or smth, cause I don't see any use for ironclad Snecko build with most of his powerful/crucial cards worth 1 energy.

It took me a total of 61 runs to plat the game. About "OP deck" I might put it wrong. Ironclad in general just an "OP class". You just skip all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cards and go like this in terms of priority:

Must have: Heavy Blade, Limit Break, at least 1 source of strength it can be any card or relic, Brimstone being the most optimal, and Demon Form being least optimal.
Very good to have: Double Tap, Feed, Whirlwind
Always a decent choice: Pommel Strike, Shrug it Off,
Possible to take if your deck is not too big: Barricade + Entrench, Disarm, Mettalicize

Try to remove a card each shop you visit, each ? event you also remove a card. Idk why I am even writing it here, as Ironclad already known as probably the best class for speedrunning both set and unset seeds. Ofc I did not use set seed, as it won't give me achievments in this case.

P.S. By plat I mean only getting all Steam achievments.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

Originally posted by LHGreen:

Also some of those starting relics that “don’t fit with your deck” are incredible starts. I’d ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ kill for a snekko eye start on most characters on A20.

I sometime think we all play different games or smth, cause I don't see any use for ironclad Snecko build with most of his powerful/crucial cards worth 1 energy.

It took me a total of 61 runs to plat the game. About "OP deck" I might put it wrong. Ironclad in general just an "OP class". You just skip all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ cards and go like this in terms of priority:

Must have: Heavy Blade, Limit Break, at least 1 source of strength it can be any card or relic, Brimstone being the most optimal, and Demon Form being least optimal.
Very good to have: Double Tap, Feed, Whirlwind
Always a decent choice: Pommel Strike, Shrug it Off,
Possible to take if your deck is not too big: Barricade + Entrench, Disarm, Mettalicize

Try to remove a card each shop you visit, each ? event you also remove a card. Idk why I am even writing it here, as Ironclad already known as probably the best class for speedrunning both set and unset seeds. Ofc I did not use set seed, as it won't give me achievments in this case.

P.S. By plat I mean only getting all Steam achievments.

Aaaand that's why you had so much trouble. You legit just tried to build the same deck every single run, what the game gives you be damned. You just flat out didn't even LOOK at anything outside of your narrow build, which explains why you can't see how good snekko is on Ironclad. He has a TON of solid 2-3 cost cards which only get better when you have a 50-75% chance of it costing even less. I mean you've got carnage, flame barrier, reaper, impervious, most of his good powers like corrupt and to a lesser extent Demon Form which has the potential to actually become decent with snekko, Perfected Strike if the game throws them at you like candy, the list goes on.

So in a sense, no we didn't play the same game. We played a roguelike that involved dynamic strategy and deck building around what the game provides. You played a slot machine.

[Rektalizer]

Originally posted by mldb88:

So in a sense, no we didn't play the same game. We played a roguelike that involved dynamic strategy and deck building around what the game provides. You played a slot machine.

I mean we just had different goals. How stable you can say a snecko run can be? Or how stable a run will be where you take ♥♥♥♥ ton of perfected strikes and cards that synergize with it so it will be a viable card? I tested few interesting decisions, I played few funny decks that achievment hunting makes you to try (with 5 or less cards, or with the one where you have to have only 3 cards at all at some point). Then I found out the most optimal build that worked for me most of the runs with not that much luck involved and went with it 22 or so times to clean A20. Yes I could've spent numerous hours making it to A20 by each character trying goofy decks that might and will work because why not?

But the "fun" is strongly subjective term and I would not feel like it's fun to do in any form. I never said I didn't enjoy my experience with the game or that I will go boycot the company till they make ascension transfer between characters. I just said that for me it would be funnier to find 3 optimal strong decks instead of 1 while I am still making progress in other way. As I said earlier, this is just a discussion for the sake of discussion.

[Khor]

Woah woah
Let`s not try to shift the blame from the game to the player
it can easily be both

[mldb88]

Originally posted by Khor:

Woah woah
Let`s not try to shift the blame from the game to the player
it can easily be both :kratos_eyebrow:

It came off a bit harsher than I meant it but my point still stands, there isn’t much fault in the game here. If you play planning to use one specific setup every run, you’re essentially just playing a slot machine hoping the odds come up in your favor, and you’ll never actually see the usefulness in 70% of the tools the game gives you if you’re not even looking at anything outside of the narrow scope you confine your deck to from the start of a run. If you’re run running through trying to hit the same deck every time, it’s going to feel a lot more grindy since you’re literally just doing the same exact thing over and over.

[Khor]

Originally posted by mldb88:

Originally posted by Khor:

Woah woah
Let`s not try to shift the blame from the game to the player
it can easily be both

It came off a bit harsher than I meant it but my point still stands, there isn’t much fault in the game here. If you play planning to use one specific setup every run, you’re essentially just playing a slot machine hoping the odds come up in your favor, and you’ll never actually see the usefulness in 70% of the tools the game gives you if you’re not even looking at anything outside of the narrow scope you confine your deck to from the start of a run. If you’re run running through trying to hit the same deck every time, it’s going to feel a lot more grindy since you’re literally just doing the same exact thing over and over.

I`ve been playing this lately
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1638390/Indies_Lies/
and I must say, at the end of the grind, the game and balance are surprisingly quite good!

The problem is... with the unlocks being server-based, it took me about 30 hours to go through 20 Ascensions and 12 Story modes.... That`s 20 hours more than any tutorial has sensible reason to last.
I blame Megacrit for that because everyone and their AI is copying their ♥♥♥♥♥♥ system (without the adroitness to leave the save unencrypted).
So, yes, there is much to fault here

[Spawnling]

Originally posted by Rektalizer:

Must have: Heavy Blade, Limit Break, at least 1 source of strength it can be any card or relic, Brimstone being the most optimal, and Demon Form being least optimal.
Very good to have: Double Tap, Feed, Whirlwind
Always a decent choice: Pommel Strike, Shrug it Off,
Possible to take if your deck is not too big: Barricade + Entrench, Disarm, Mettalicize

Strength build without Sword Boomberang, Reaper or Exhaust xD