What do I unlock for beating the game with the three starting characters?

[☠Black Knight]

I noticed at the end of the game (after the credits) on A0, each character had like a little colored gemstone and what looked like a typical locked door. I've already beaten A0 on both Ironclad and The Silent, but trying to play the defect is killing my interest in the game, and fast. I ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate this character lol.

So, is whatever this thing unlocks very important? Cause if not, I'll probably just drop them and never touch them again.

[Banzai]

I wont be too spoilery but beating the game (ie reaching the heart) with the three original characters unlocks the "true ending". Once thats unlocked, on subsequent you will be able to collect those three parts of the key during a run in order to access the final part of the game.

[LHGreen]

Too bad. Defect is a lot of fun.

[Thulsa ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Doom]

defect and ironclad are most fun characters

[☠Black Knight]

Originally posted by Banzai:

I wont be too spoilery but beating the game (ie reaching the heart) with the three original characters unlocks the "true ending". Once thats unlocked, on subsequent you will be able to collect those three parts of the key during a run in order to access the final part of the game.

I don't really know how, but managed to just barely get a win with the defect finally. Turbo+, Tempest+, Defragment+(x2) and Double Energy let me just nuke everything with lightning spam the whole time.

So can I find all three of these keys on any character? Or do I have to run through with all of them a second time again?

Also, are these keys located on just normal runs, ascension runs, or both?

[Le Libertine]

Originally posted by ☠Black Knight:

Originally posted by Banzai:

I wont be too spoilery but beating the game (ie reaching the heart) with the three original characters unlocks the "true ending". Once thats unlocked, on subsequent you will be able to collect those three parts of the key during a run in order to access the final part of the game.

I don't really know how, but managed to just barely get a win with the defect finally. Turbo+, Tempest+, Defragment+(x2) and Double Energy let me just nuke everything with lightning the whole time.

So can I find all three of these keys on any character? Or do I have to run through with all of them a second time again?

Also, are these keys located on just normal runs, ascension runs, or both?

Any character can collect all 3 keys during a normal run. The 'keys' are gems.

First gem is found by choosing recall at a rest site.
Second gem is found by defeating a fiery elite.
Third gem is found in non-boss chests.

Once you have all 3 gems - this unlocks the door to act 4 after you finish act 3.

[LHGreen]

And if you think Defect is tough, wait until you try Act 4, even with your best character.

[☠Black Knight]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

And if you think Defect is tough, wait until you try Act 4, even with your best character.

Almost made it to act 4 last night on my favorite character (The Silent with poison + shiv build, which is my favorite character/build.)

... But I wasn't expecting the boss to revive to full HP and have to fight them again lol. Will try again tonight.

[the poopshitter]

Originally posted by ☠Black Knight:

Originally posted by LHGreen:

And if you think Defect is tough, wait until you try Act 4, even with your best character.

Almost made it to act 4 last night on my favorite character (The Silent with poison + shiv build, which is my favorite character/build.)

... But I wasn't expecting the boss to revive to full HP and have to fight them again lol. Will try again tonight.

For the love of god do not bring a shiv build to act 4
The last thing you have to fight basically directly counters any 0 cost card spam decks far worse than time eater

[☠Black Knight]

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

Originally posted by ☠Black Knight:

Almost made it to act 4 last night on my favorite character (The Silent with poison + shiv build, which is my favorite character/build.)

... But I wasn't expecting the boss to revive to full HP and have to fight them again lol. Will try again tonight.

For the love of god do not bring a shiv build to act 4
The last thing you have to fight basically directly counters any 0 cost card spam decks far worse than time eater

I see, good to know. Does poison still work on them? Or is there another build that's better for it?

[the poopshitter]

Originally posted by ☠Black Knight:

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

For the love of god do not bring a shiv build to act 4
The last thing you have to fight basically directly counters any 0 cost card spam decks far worse than time eater

I see, good to know. Does poison still work on them? Or is there another build that's better for it?

You'll figure it out after one fight is all I can say. I don't use silent often and it's been a while since I played this game or fought the true final boss anyway, so I can't comment on poison, but iirc it works well enough.

But it basically just funnels you into a few specific builds to counter it on any character. Part of why I'm not a huge fan of giving a ♥♥♥♥ about fighting it when doing ascension cuz it neuters build variety and fun factor, but it's a fun enough challenge for a one-and-done thing just to see the character's ending slides and figure out what works.

[the poopshitter]

I will say that you really, really, REALLY want the torii + tungsten rod relic combo for rhe fight if you are ever able to pick them during the run, and if you do manage to get that combo early enough a shiv build is fine against it. Or at the very least one of those two relics if you can take them.

It's unlikely to get both since they're rare relics but it happens sometimes and makes it a loooot easier.

[Corlindale]

Silent is my most played character, and I can confidently say from experience that Shiv builds csn perform really well against the Heart, even at A20. Most of my A20 Heart victories have been Shiv-based.

You don't need any specific combo to counter Beat of Death, you just need some way to consistently generate lots of block. Which Silent luckily excels at. After Image, Dex-scaling with Footwork and/or Kunai, Blur (+burst optionally). Blur is especially good with the Heart because you can roll over a lot of block from the non-attacking turns.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

For the love of god do not bring a shiv build to act 4
The last thing you have to fight basically directly counters any 0 cost card spam decks far worse than time eater

Lol, let him find out for himself. Besides, Silent has a counter for that counter.

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

But it basically just funnels you into a few specific builds to counter it on any character.

It DOES limit you, but this is the wrong way to think about it. You'd be surprised what works.

Originally posted by Corlindale:

Silent is my most played character, and I can confidently say from experience that Shiv builds csn perform really well against the Heart, even at A20. Most of my A20 Heart victories have been Shiv-based.

You don't need any specific combo to counter Beat of Death, you just need some way to consistently generate lots of block. Which Silent luckily excels at. After Image, Dex-scaling with Footwork and/or Kunai, Blur (+burst optionally). Blur is especially good with the Heart because you can roll over a lot of block from the non-attacking turns.

[the poopshitter]

Originally posted by Corlindale:

Silent is my most played character, and I can confidently say from experience that Shiv builds csn perform really well against the Heart, even at A20. Most of my A20 Heart victories have been Shiv-based.

You don't need any specific combo to counter Beat of Death, you just need some way to consistently generate lots of block. Which Silent luckily excels at. After Image, Dex-scaling with Footwork and/or Kunai, Blur (+burst optionally). Blur is especially good with the Heart because you can roll over a lot of block from the non-attacking turns.

Ok but you do concede that you have to put in a lot more effort than normal to make a shiv build work because the fight's mechanics directly go against it at base, compared to poison which wins against heart more consistently due to effortlessly hitting the damage limit every turn once it's up, and with less investment needed, right?

That was my point.

You can very much make basically anything work for the heart if you brute force it enough and get lucky enough with relic drops and other cards not standard for a particular build outside of act 4 but some just take a lot less to be functional for it.

Also I'm gonna disagree that Silent "excels" at block. They really don't, they excel at reducing damage taken, one of their main downsides is their block cards are generally weaker or require more setup compared to Ironclad and Defect, both of which can spam block en masse and far more consistently. Not to mention Ironclad having the infinite block builds into body slam that everyone and their mother has had good fun with at some point.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

Ok but you do concede that you have to put in a lot more effort than normal to make a shiv build work because the fight's mechanics directly go against it at base, compared to poison which wins against heart more consistently due to effortlessly hitting the damage limit every turn once it's up, and with less investment needed, right?

That was my point.

If that was your point, you didn't make it very well, earlier.

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

You can very much make basically anything work for the heart if you brute force it enough and get lucky enough with relic drops and other cards not standard for a particular build outside of act 4 but some just take a lot less to be functional for it.

There's so few heart-killing builds that DON'T require something along those lines that they should be considered the exception, not the rule. But you consider them like they're the rule. It's not "you gotta get these builds, and if you don't, you were unlucky or not as lucky as you need to be", it's more like "there's any number of builds you can make work, but if you get these particular builds you were especially lucky". Like I said, you were thinking about it the wrong way. It's not that you're unlucky if you don't, it's that you're lucky if you do.

Of course, thinking about it in terms of builds is also a problem. But that's a different subject.

Originally posted by the poopshitter:

Also I'm gonna disagree that Silent "excels" at block. They really don't, they excel at reducing damage taken, one of their main downsides is their block cards are generally weaker or require more setup compared to Ironclad and Defect, both of which can spam block en masse and far more consistently.

It's not really that she "excels" at block, it's that she's just a complete tank and easily turtles against enemies. She has so many ways to defend herself that she doesn't need block as much. She IS still pretty good at it, though. It's just that her block is more spread out in her card pool, so she doesn't have a few really big block cards and a bunch of small ones. She may not be as good at the whole "spam block en masse" thing as IC and Defect are (at least in terms of sheer numbers), IF they get a good block deck going, but she is better able and more likely to build a block-heavy, defensive deck than them. She's very defense-oriented.