So what's the trick for clearing ascension 18+ with silent?

[CPT NINGLE]

This feels near impossible. I always go hard in act 1 to get as many good card pickups and elites as possible, yet no matter how insane my act 1 progress is, act 2 just deletes me at some point. Silent feels so damn weak without godrolling the perfect build.

[mldb88]

If you’re focusing a single “build” (or more accurately archetype), that’s probably a big part of the problem. Silent thrives on having more than one way of dealing with things and having the cycling to dig to what you need. Don’t sleep on things like eviscerate and sneaky strike especially if you get a few cards that let you discard and cycle to dig through your deck more. Usually leaning full into shiv or poison and ignoring other options ends up with a dead silent once you hit an encounter your archetype of choice can’t deal with. Also energy sources become a lot more necessary as you climb ascensions, so don’t hesitate to pick those boss relics that give extra energy if the downside is managable and won’t cripple your deck (choker for instance is usually the main one to avoid)

[CPT NINGLE]

Originally posted by mldb88:

If you’re focusing a single “build” (or more accurately archetype), that’s probably a big part of the problem.

Quite the opposite, actually. I work with what is given to me. The problem is it never seems to be enough, and when it is, I just get hard countered by a forced elite or boss and then have to start the process all over again.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

Originally posted by mldb88:

If you’re focusing a single “build” (or more accurately archetype), that’s probably a big part of the problem.

Quite the opposite, actually. I work with what is given to me. The problem is it never seems to be enough, and when it is, I just get hard countered by a forced elite or boss and then have to start the process all over again.

Hard to give hyper specific advice with so little to go off of, but usually at that ascension I found my biggest problems were undervaluing certain cards or thinking I needed to lean harder into them once I did get them (Sneaky strike and snagging a bunch of discard effects for example when in the early game just the neutralize works fine), doing the opposite (Flying knee isn't nearly as good as I thought it was back when I was working on A16-20 silent), not thinking far enough ahead with my pathing options (Now I tend to plan out multiple routes right from the first node with contingencies for each), and not using resources liberally enough (I had a nasty habit of hoarding potions.... once you hit A16 or so use every edge you've got, even if it means using that potion of memory to get you through the hallway fight before an elite unscathed).

Lastly, if you feel like you're really stuck in a rut and nothing is working, try experimenting with cards or relic options you normally don't take. Is there a good chance you might lose? Sure, but it might give you some insight on when it might be the best choice to take those or discover interactions you might be overlooking.

[LHGreen]

It helps to know that Silent is actually a tank, and kinda the tankiest of the four. She has a lot of high-value defends, ways to debuff enemy damage, and even major access to intangible.

[Corlindale]

It's important to have a variety of tools in your deck. If you feel you are getting 'hard-countered' by a particular boss or elite, maybe you need just a little more diversity. Silent can be a really strong class despite arguably having the weakest start. As mentioned she can be extremely tanky with plenty of high-value block cards (several of which let you carry over some block to the following turn) and a relatively common in-class means of scaling Dexterity in Footwork. Also don't underestimate Wraith Form, it's one of the most powerful defensive tools in the game when used at the right moment.

It's good you already have a practice of working with what you get instead of tunnel-visioning. Many succcesful Silent runs cannot be pigeonholed into a 'shiv deck' or 'poison deck' archetype, but end up drawing on a variety of tools. Like that time I had shivs but never got any damage scaling for them, so I only used my shiv cards to proc Kunai and scale defense while poison did the heavy work with offense.

Here's an example of what I mean by diversity. Just yesterday I had a Silent run where my deck was based around playing lots and lots of cards (shivs + dead branch, and 5 energy with Ectoplasm and Hammer). This was A20 so double boss. First boss was Awakened One - good news, my deck didn't rely much on Power cards and he was easy. Second boss I was of course hoping for Donu and Deca so I could just go all out, but knew I had to be prepared for Time Eater. Sure enough, there he is. But even though he was not my preferred choice, I still had answers for him. I'd saved both my potions because I knew he'd be the hardest A3 boss for my deck. I had a few means of Dex-scaling up my sleeve to counter his Strength-scaling. Finally, I used Nightmare on a Malaise early in the fight, so I could periodically neutralize his strength boosts while also keeping him near-permanently weakened. And then it was just a matter of pacing the cards carefully.

I know an example featuring Branch may not be the most illustrative as Branch is perhaps the closest thing this game has to an overpowered relic. But my general point is simply that people very often assume that a boss like TIme Eater hard-counters a shiv-based deck, which is clearly not the case. It jus forces said deck to have some diversity, some extra tricks to deal with his mechanics. I've beaten him more often with shivs than with poison, certainly. Similar case with a power-heavy Defect deck against Awakened One. Sure, you'd prefer not to meet him, but you need to have answers for his first phase in case you do and he is very much beatable.

[TJones]

Act 1 silent on A20 feels like the hardest thing in the game to me. I think my problem is I take way too many "this will be good later" cards early like calculated gamble, acrobatics, etc. and don't have any damage

[Corlindale]

Originally posted by TJones:

Act 1 silent on A20 feels like the hardest thing in the game to me. I think my problem is I take way too many "this will be good later" cards early like calculated gamble, acrobatics, etc. and don't have any damage

Both of those are definitely picks I would only gravitate towards at around the halfway point of the game, when I already have my basics covered (maybe Acrobatics earlier if I have discard synergies and(or excess energy).

Early Act 1 I'm looking for offense, offense and more offense, although I will of course (begrudgingly) take very strong cards in other categories over very subpar offensive ones. "this will be good later" only works if there actually is a 'later' in the first place.

Slay the Spire in generally leans a lot into a philosophy that might be described as "the primacy of NOW". As in: Things that help you a lot now are often better than they seem (because you can leverage the advantage to, say, take more risks and fight more elites, or pay for advantages in more events), whereas things that don't help you now and only help you gradually later on are often worse than they seem.

That's not to say you should never think in the long-term (it is particularly important to think ahead if you plan on going for the Heart, as some cards are particularly useful in that exact fight), but the main concern is usually to survive immediate challenges (ie. this Act and its elites + the boss).

The 'primacy of now'-principle also applies in individual battles, where cards that give you an early advantage at the cost of later disadvantage (like Corruption and Wraith Form) are often surprisingly strong because you can leverage that advantage to straight up win the fight so fast that the disadvantage never comes into play.

[CPT NINGLE]

That's all very well but what am I supposed to do when the game simply refuses to give me the tools I need? More often than not, I just get stomped by the knight because the game outright said no.

[Corlindale]

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

That's all very well but what am I supposed to do when the game simply refuses to give me the tools I need? More often than not, I just get stomped by the knight because the game outright said no.

If you feel that way often, there's a pretty good chance you are tunnel visioning a bit and need to open up to the possibilities. No particular cards or relics are needed to win, there are many different paths to success. There are very few cards in this game that are outright bad, so no matter what you are offered you should try to see possibilities instead of feeling frustrated. Searching for one particular card almost never ends well.

If there are cards you have been avoiding, maybe take them for a spin and see how they perform in practice instead of dismissing them on sight. I didn't truly learn to appreciate the power of Wraith Form until I'd actually used it, for example. There may be some Silent cards you've also been undervaluing. This seems likely if you feel you are never getting good cards, although of course we haven't seen you play so cannot be sure.

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

That's all very well but what am I supposed to do when the game simply refuses to give me the tools I need? More often than not, I just get stomped by the knight because the game outright said no.

There's a few scales of multitude of choices between Neow options and the end of Act 2. Without any kind of information beyond that, it's effectively impossible to speculate anything useful from it.

[CPT NINGLE]

I don't think I'm tunnel visioning. I play with the mindset of an open book. I pivot at any given time to the strongest board offered to me. I don't try to force particular items or cards. I start every act 1 assessing the route and hitting as many fights and elites that I'm capable of, with an escape route into less dangerous options if a battle goes south. I prioritize high damage cards and aoe, as well as ways to counter the boss I'm against. Shops are a priority, but I will avoid them until around 300g, unless I've got a crazy route in front of me and need an immediate boost.

I usually clear act 1 without many issues, and end up having fought a bucket load of hallway fights and 2-3+ elites. If the boss offers an energy item, I nearly always take it unless it's something like the choker (which I will take if I have a setup that manages fine with less cards played, but that seldom happens).

Act 2 is usually where the ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan. The first couple of fights quite often delete my health bar and then I'm fighting an uphill battle. I don't get to hit as many elites as I have to make a run for the nearest rest site. I quite often don't even hit the boss, but when I do, I'm usually at a deficit because I haven't been able to find things to counter them.

I don't tend to skip cards unless they don't offer much value, or there's too much bloat going on. Wraith form? Sure, love it. Does it show up? Hell no, but it matters not when Mr Knight is about to hit me for 80 and I've got nothing. I just don't get where I'm going wrong. I'm no stranger to this game - I've cleared A20 on Ironclad and got all achievements. I just can't make Silent work reliably.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

I don't think I'm tunnel visioning. I play with the mindset of an open book. I pivot at any given time to the strongest board offered to me. I don't try to force particular items or cards. I start every act 1 assessing the route and hitting as many fights and elites that I'm capable of, with an escape route into less dangerous options if a battle goes south. I prioritize high damage cards and aoe, as well as ways to counter the boss I'm against. Shops are a priority, but I will avoid them until around 300g, unless I've got a crazy route in front of me and need an immediate boost.

I usually clear act 1 without many issues, and end up having fought a bucket load of hallway fights and 2-3+ elites. If the boss offers an energy item, I nearly always take it unless it's something like the choker (which I will take if I have a setup that manages fine with less cards played, but that seldom happens).

Act 2 is usually where the ♥♥♥♥ hits the fan. The first couple of fights quite often delete my health bar and then I'm fighting an uphill battle. I don't get to hit as many elites as I have to make a run for the nearest rest site. I quite often don't even hit the boss, but when I do, I'm usually at a deficit because I haven't been able to find things to counter them.

I don't tend to skip cards unless they don't offer much value, or there's too much bloat going on. Wraith form? Sure, love it. Does it show up? Hell no, but it matters not when Mr Knight is about to hit me for 80 and I've got nothing. I just don't get where I'm going wrong. I'm no stranger to this game - I've cleared A20 on Ironclad and got all achievements. I just can't make Silent work reliably.

Usually with Act 2 events can actually offer a lot more value since hallways fights are much more dangerous, arguably moreso that some of the elites depending, and your deck is in that weird in between phase. Try taking a bit more of a cautious route, pathing towards more events and only hitting elites if your deck is overperforming or really streamlined for where you are in the run. Then shift back towards fights a little more in act 3 as events/combat are a bit more of a toss up / even in terms of potential benefit. If you're trying to play Act 2 in the same way you play Act 1, that might be where the problem lies.

[trial_by_fire]

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

I prioritize high damage cards and aoe, as well as ways to counter the boss I'm against.

Out of curiosity, would say that your deck is 'attack heavy'?

Having good attacks is important, but are you leaning into that too heavily? Having good defense and utility cards makes a ton of difference.

Again, not saying your aren't taking good defense and utility cards, I'm just wondering if you are over focusing on attacks.

Maybe you need to approach Act 2 from a different angle too. Experiment and try playing it differently than you normally would. Might be fruitful.

Good luck!

[CPT NINGLE]

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

I prioritize high damage cards and aoe, as well as ways to counter the boss I'm against.

Out of curiosity, would say that your deck is 'attack heavy'?

Not if I can help it. I always take high value mitigation when necessary - low value when desperate.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by CPT NINGLE:

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Out of curiosity, would say that your deck is 'attack heavy'?

Not if I can help it. I always take high value mitigation when necessary - low value when desperate.

I notice you're using terms like "high value" and "low value" a lot, what are you using to define what's high value and what's low value?