How to make a proper poison deck?

[Blundering Rookie]

Hey yall just fishing for tips here, I love playing silent however i always gravitate towards Shivs, and whenever I want to use poison i never end up beating the act 3 boss, if even that. Any ideas on how to improve, what cards to take etc.? Trying to beat A10 rn

[LHGreen]

Well, it's important to remember that in some runs, you're just not meant to have poison or shivs or discard/draw or debuffing or any other specific tactic for Silent. So don't get tunnel vision over stuff like that. As for doing poison, you can turn shivs INTO poison with Envenom and some extra multi-hit cards. But most of the time, it's not meant to be your main source of damage any more than shivs are, it's just supposed to supplement and support your dps. In this game, the best tactic is usually to use a little bit of everything, not focus on one thing.

[Blundering Rookie]

Very insightful thanks :)

[Bumc]

Basic 5 poison for 1 energy is already a good deal, especially if you upgrade it.
Going full poison is probably unwise unless you happen to get catalyst.

[Nibbie]

I will preface this saying I have beaten A20, but don't play it regularly and am far from the best player. Personally though, the simple Deadly Poison is my go-to. Bouncing Flask is random and deals less poison per mana unless you have the +1 poison relic (which makes most any source of poison work great, especially good with Envenom Shivs), Noxious Fumes is kind of slow, can be good for bosses and elites at least, and Poison Stab is nice to still have a useful attack for things like Byrds and spaghetti, but doesn't do that much on its own. Deadly Poison stacks it the fastest and most flexibly, and thus combos best with Catalyst, obviously the best card for the archtype. Though given the nature of the game, you can't necessarily just stick to any one thing, you have to work with that you are given, so don't dismiss anything out of hand just because its not ideal.

The other key card to watch for is Burst, since that can stack your poison way faster and/or stack your defense to keep you alive while your poison ticks. If you get Burst and Catalyst, you can instakill bosses from very low poison counts; starting from 0 poison, Burst+ -Deadly Poison+ -Catalyst+ applies 126 poison, killing anything in just a couple turns. Well Laid Plans or Runic Pyramid can help you get this combo together in hand. I usually run only a few poison generation cards, with most of the deck focused on staying alive while enemies tick down (Blur, Footwork, Dodge and Roll, Wraith Form, etc) and drawing back around to more poison or defense as needed (Acrobatics, Backflip, Adrenaline, etc).

[Zu]

There's no "proper poison deck".

Poison - by design - is meant to be an efficient source of damage over time.
In the fights where you have the luxury to bide your time, poison allows you to spend most of your energy doing anything besides dealing damage in some way.

In the fights where you usually can't stall (like Slavers or 2 Orb Walkers), you will need more suitable solutions that provide upfront damage (like shivs + strength + vulnerable), relics that protect you so you can apply more poison early, or ways to accelerate the poison (like dupe potion + catalyst, a simple corpse explosion, or the similar specimen relic).

There's more to it than that but the point is that poison in a vacuum does one thing well, and this one thing is usually not enough to overcome the various challenges you run across; it's just one solution to scaling damage unless - again - you have ways to change the way it typically operates.

Just to name 2:
Envenom with Snecko Skull and multi-hits.
Stacking intangible with Wraith Forms and the like so you need less poison than you otherwise would, but timing is essential against Time Eater and such so you don't run out of steam before the finish line.

[Turncloak]

2x deadly poison+, catalyst+, Burst+ 2x Adrenaline+, Corpse Explosion for multiple mobs, well laid plans, tactician and anything that pulls on the deck is good. Maybe chuck in bouncing flask if you have the energy. Remove your attack cards.

I don't like envenom because you have to upgrade it to be cost effective and have shiv to be useful with it at which point it's not a pure poison skill deck. Poison stab is also crap I find.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by Turncloak:

2x deadly poison+, catalyst+, Burst+ 2x Adrenaline+, Corpse Explosion for multiple mobs, well laid plans, tactician and anything that pulls on the deck is good. Maybe chuck in bouncing flask if you have the energy. Remove your attack cards.

I don't like envenom because you have to upgrade it to be cost effective and have shiv to be useful with it at which point it's not a pure poison skill deck. Poison stab is also crap I find.

And good luck finding and upgrading all of those very specific cards in a given run.

[Chibi Life]

This game is anti-fun. You can't make "decks", you gotta make all the right choices building your deck based on the random trash they throw at you and if you choose poorly once you lose. There's also a platitude of boss mechanics and enemy mechanics that will end your run if you rely too heavily on certain deck builds so you might have a powerful deck until that one enemy ends your run.

Over 1000 hours in this game and it only makes me salty.

[trial_by_fire]

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

This game is anti-fun. You can't make "decks", you gotta make all the right choices building your deck based on the random trash they throw at you and if you choose poorly once you lose. There's also a platitude of boss mechanics and enemy mechanics that will end your run if you rely too heavily on certain deck builds so you might have a powerful deck until that one enemy ends your run.

Over 1000 hours in this game and it only makes me salty.

Why would you play it for over 1000 hours if it wasn't fun? Or 'anti-fun' as you put it?

[Chibi Life]

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

This game is anti-fun. You can't make "decks", you gotta make all the right choices building your deck based on the random trash they throw at you and if you choose poorly once you lose. There's also a platitude of boss mechanics and enemy mechanics that will end your run if you rely too heavily on certain deck builds so you might have a powerful deck until that one enemy ends your run.

Over 1000 hours in this game and it only makes me salty.

Why would you play it for over 1000 hours if it wasn't fun? Or 'anti-fun' as you put it?

Cuz I'm stubborn I refuse to stop until I get good at it but it's clearly not going to happen so it's become a masochistic thing that is torturing me. I've been tempted to erase it from my account knowing I wouldn't rebuy it lol

[HEAVY METAL HAZARD]

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Why would you play it for over 1000 hours if it wasn't fun? Or 'anti-fun' as you put it?

Cuz I'm stubborn I refuse to stop until I get good at it but it's clearly not going to happen so it's become a masochistic thing that is torturing me. I've been tempted to erase it from my account knowing I wouldn't rebuy it lol

umm if you want to post some of your gameplay we can help give you tips if you want?

i understand, roguelike games aren't for everyone. i like them! all the points you gave are what makes this game interesting to me. deckbuilding games usually make my head kind of spin with information overload, and i find them difficult to pick back up after taking long breaks. but i found it incredibly easy to just pick up and play slay the spire. my hours are a little skewed bc i first started playing on a family member's console and just got it for pc very recently, but i got sucked into it right away and was surprised how easy it was to just... well, play. i stayed up through the whole night playing it the first time i picked it up.

the thing with roguelikes is you have to kind of throw caution to the wind, don't think too hard about a particular goal, and roll with the punches. you have to be spontaneous, try new things, try weird things. i've seen a lot of people for the games like this i play trying very hard to completely control the game's RNG and that... kinda goes against the entire principal of a roguelike? it's okay if you just don't like that kind of game! you might have tried it and just found it wasn't for you, and that's okay.

but if you really do wanna try playing it, you gotta kinda adapt to the game instead of making the game adapt to you. does that make sense?

i'm a much newer player than a lot of other folks around here but i feel like that can be useful to others who are also new or struggling; multiple perspectives and all that. so if you really want to give it a shot, tell us more about how you play and how you would like to play, and we can figure out how to actually meaningfully help you.

[Chibi Life]

Originally posted by HEAVY METAL HAZARD:

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

Cuz I'm stubborn I refuse to stop until I get good at it but it's clearly not going to happen so it's become a masochistic thing that is torturing me. I've been tempted to erase it from my account knowing I wouldn't rebuy it lol

umm if you want to post some of your gameplay we can help give you tips if you want?

i understand, roguelike games aren't for everyone. i like them! all the points you gave are what makes this game interesting to me. deckbuilding games usually make my head kind of spin with information overload, and i find them difficult to pick back up after taking long breaks. but i found it incredibly easy to just pick up and play slay the spire. my hours are a little skewed bc i first started playing on a family member's console and just got it for pc very recently, but i got sucked into it right away and was surprised how easy it was to just... well, play. i stayed up through the whole night playing it the first time i picked it up.

the thing with roguelikes is you have to kind of throw caution to the wind, don't think too hard about a particular goal, and roll with the punches. you have to be spontaneous, try new things, try weird things. i've seen a lot of people for the games like this i play trying very hard to completely control the game's RNG and that... kinda goes against the entire principal of a roguelike? it's okay if you just don't like that kind of game! you might have tried it and just found it wasn't for you, and that's okay.

but if you really do wanna try playing it, you gotta kinda adapt to the game instead of making the game adapt to you. does that make sense?

i'm a much newer player than a lot of other folks around here but i feel like that can be useful to others who are also new or struggling; multiple perspectives and all that. so if you really want to give it a shot, tell us more about how you play and how you would like to play, and we can figure out how to actually meaningfully help you.

I appreciate that but I am the kind of person who will lash out angrily if someone comes at me with a condescending attitude or talks to me like I'm stupid. Knowing this about myself I will not seek advice from anyone but people I trust.

[HEAVY METAL HAZARD]

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

Originally posted by HEAVY METAL HAZARD:

umm if you want to post some of your gameplay we can help give you tips if you want?

i understand, roguelike games aren't for everyone. i like them! all the points you gave are what makes this game interesting to me. deckbuilding games usually make my head kind of spin with information overload, and i find them difficult to pick back up after taking long breaks. but i found it incredibly easy to just pick up and play slay the spire. my hours are a little skewed bc i first started playing on a family member's console and just got it for pc very recently, but i got sucked into it right away and was surprised how easy it was to just... well, play. i stayed up through the whole night playing it the first time i picked it up.

the thing with roguelikes is you have to kind of throw caution to the wind, don't think too hard about a particular goal, and roll with the punches. you have to be spontaneous, try new things, try weird things. i've seen a lot of people for the games like this i play trying very hard to completely control the game's RNG and that... kinda goes against the entire principal of a roguelike? it's okay if you just don't like that kind of game! you might have tried it and just found it wasn't for you, and that's okay.

but if you really do wanna try playing it, you gotta kinda adapt to the game instead of making the game adapt to you. does that make sense?

i'm a much newer player than a lot of other folks around here but i feel like that can be useful to others who are also new or struggling; multiple perspectives and all that. so if you really want to give it a shot, tell us more about how you play and how you would like to play, and we can figure out how to actually meaningfully help you.

I appreciate that but I am the kind of person who will lash out angrily if someone comes at me with a condescending attitude or talks to me like I'm stupid. Knowing this about myself I will not seek advice from anyone but people I trust.

oh, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to come off as condescending or anything. my wanting to help is genuine! i understand that feeling though, it can be hard to parse what people really mean unless you know them well, and that can be really uncomfortable and stressful.

well, you don't have to do anything you don't want to, but if you ever decide you want to try it out again, we'll be here ^^ i hope you have fun playing other games that you like!

[Turncloak]

Originally posted by trial_by_fire:

Originally posted by Chibi Life:

This game is anti-fun. You can't make "decks", you gotta make all the right choices building your deck based on the random trash they throw at you and if you choose poorly once you lose. There's also a platitude of boss mechanics and enemy mechanics that will end your run if you rely too heavily on certain deck builds so you might have a powerful deck until that one enemy ends your run.

Over 1000 hours in this game and it only makes me salty.

Why would you play it for over 1000 hours if it wasn't fun? Or 'anti-fun' as you put it?

I have put close to 200 and I sort of feel the same, It's quite a common thing with this particular game I think, I know other people who played and felt the same and eventually stopped playing. Just look at negative reviews and you'll see a similar trend.

Personally I think Ascension isn't balanced and the RNG is too much.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

The proper poison deck is whatever gets you through the run.

Catalyst and Burst are your bread and butter "gg" button. But other suggestioned ones could work, envenom with enough shivs lead you to slowly stacking and envenom can act as a makeshift poison sustain if the game decides to not give you the other sustain one.

You got some options, and you don't even need poison to be the focus and more of a backup/effect while you use Shivs or another type.