I just can't win with Watcher.

[Civanfan]

Mostly i'm just venting here.

I've managed to get to ascension two with the others, but when it comes to Watcher, I just can't manage. I've the archetypes in the guide, I've tried filling my deck with switching cards whenever they pop up, I've tried filling it with zero-cost cards (and cards to key off those free cards), I've tried randomly choosing without thinking (and gotten surprisingly far), I've improvised strategies on the fly, gotten lucky with snecko potions and had my life saved only to die die die.

I think I might play the others for a bit to clear my head.

[LHGreen]

Which guide? If you're strictly following set archetypes or builds, you're doing it wrong. Here:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2673443183
THIS is the REAL guide, that gives solid advice which applies to all the classes. It sounds like your approaches have been too ridged and inflexible, so you should give this a read.

Also, it's not surprising that choosing without thinking got you that far. It's a bit closer to being the "optimal" approach to the game than any of the other things you've tried.

[Civanfan]

Thank you very much. I'll give it a read.

[Cress]

I would suggest watching a "pro" player for a video or two. I literally went from derping around to a good winrate in 1-2 videos (although I still watch them from time to time for entertainment value). Highly suggest Baalorlord on YT, he explains the thought process at every major decision and will help you understand the game on a much higher level.

[Lavie]

Also the champ Jorbs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0zyhZLfdmw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1-Qgs1R7E0

And his serie "Overexplaining" for really goods advices about decisions in StS...

[Devsman]

Watcher is my hardest character too.

I actually won with a mark deck one time. It was kinda nuts though. I pretty much got rid of and/or didn't accept anything that wasn't Mark.

[Cress]

Originally posted by Lavie:

Also the champ Jorbs:

And his serie "Overexplaining" for really goods advices about decisions in StS...

Might just be me or the select few videos I watched of his... but man, I can't get behind watching that guy. He just comes off as pretentious and toxic, and is quite boring to watch/listen to. Waste your time on better tubers.

[mldb88]

Watcher is also one of the hardest classes when you really dig under the surface. A lot of her damage comes from using wrath, but knowing when it’s safe to use it kind of relies on having at least a basic understanding of all of the enemies and their movesets until you hit the point where enemies just don’t get a next turn. The more familiar you get with the game as a whole the easier watcher gets to play. Still only about A7 on her but what I learned from playing chad and silent up through A20 helped make those climbs a lot less painful and easier to figure out where a run went wrong.

[coyote720]

Originally posted by Civanfan:

Mostly i'm just venting here.

I've managed to get to ascension two with the others, but when it comes to Watcher, I just can't manage. I've the archetypes in the guide, I've tried filling my deck with switching cards whenever they pop up, I've tried filling it with zero-cost cards (and cards to key off those free cards), I've tried randomly choosing without thinking (and gotten surprisingly far), I've improvised strategies on the fly, gotten lucky with snecko potions and had my life saved only to die die die.

I think I might play the others for a bit to clear my head.

Curse you for posting this! :-)

I posted about this topic last month, got some great feedback, and set out to finally win with Watcher. Instead, my losing streak with her was extended. Now I'm motivated to try again...one....last.....time!

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by coyote720:

I posted about this topic last month, got some great feedback, and set out to finally win with Watcher. Instead, my losing streak with her was extended. Now I'm motivated to try again...one....last.....time!

Yeah, you're supposed to lose a lot with her, at first. You have to know what you're doing.

[burningmime]

My best advice for watcher is to do the math. Do *all* the damn math. Take into account the relics, the cards in your hand, the cards in your deck, figure out the *exact* ammount of damage you can deal on a turn and if you have (a good chance of hitting) lethal. Write it down on a piece of paper if you have to, tote out a calculator.

While mental math is important for all characters, you can sometimes get a general feel for how much damage you'll deal/take with the others. Defect and Ironclad can get to the point where the deck plays itself, and every decision in a fight becomes obvious. Such is not the case with Watcher since you're constantly riding that razor's edge between beautifully OP and beautifully ****ed. It's hard to construct a Watcher deck that "just works," you need to be the one at the helm making decisions -- decisions that aren't immediately obvious -- even through to the final boss.

[Terratrox]

Watcher's strength is her ungodly bursts of damage. It's just that those bursts come with an accompanying increase in damage taken. So the obvious solution is to either, like the others said, memorize the movement patterns of enemies so you KNOW you can get multiple turns out of Wrath without retribution, or to just beat them to death with a single turn of Wrath.

The third option is to enter and leave Wrath in the same turn, which IS doable with the empty stance cards and a lot of stance switching, but it's more difficult to pull off.

Watcher is math heavy at high ascensions. She's the real character for those who like excel spreadsheets :P

[bearhiderug]

Watcher IS the absolute best class for consistent runs

[Lavie]

Another explained run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9czLA-7ELdM

[sircrimsonfox]

Originally posted by Civanfan:

Mostly i'm just venting here.

I've managed to get to ascension two with the others, but when it comes to Watcher, I just can't manage. I've the archetypes in the guide, I've tried filling my deck with switching cards whenever they pop up, I've tried filling it with zero-cost cards (and cards to key off those free cards), I've tried randomly choosing without thinking (and gotten surprisingly far), I've improvised strategies on the fly, gotten lucky with snecko potions and had my life saved only to die die die.

I think I might play the others for a bit to clear my head.

i can't win with any of them. I start to do REALLY REALLY well and then ONE thing comes along and kills me.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by crimsonfox:

Originally posted by Civanfan:

Mostly i'm just venting here.

I've managed to get to ascension two with the others, but when it comes to Watcher, I just can't manage. I've the archetypes in the guide, I've tried filling my deck with switching cards whenever they pop up, I've tried filling it with zero-cost cards (and cards to key off those free cards), I've tried randomly choosing without thinking (and gotten surprisingly far), I've improvised strategies on the fly, gotten lucky with snecko potions and had my life saved only to die die die.

I think I might play the others for a bit to clear my head.

i can't win with any of them. I start to do REALLY REALLY well and then ONE thing comes along and kills me.

Take a read through the guide in the first post, it might help pinpoint some beginner traps you might be falling into or some mistakes you might be making. Doing really well and then losing to one specific enemy usually means you're hyper focusing too hard into one mechanic or strategy and come across it's counter (shivs/death by papercuts style decks and the spiny ball guys in act 3 for instance). The more familiar you are with what you might face, the better you'll be able to prepare for it (even if it is just holding onto that smoke bomb to just nope the ♥♥♥♥ out of there).