I thought giving up my starter relic for a boss relic on The watcher would be very beneficial...

[Voidmonger]

I got sneko eye 3 times out of 6, and velvet choker 1 out of 6 =_=

[DJDiceZ]

Which are nice. Swapping is a valid choice. Especially since the boss relic pool has been updated to be much better this update.

[Voidmonger]

Originally posted by DJDiceZ:

Which are nice. Swapping is a valid choice. Especially since the boss relic pool has been updated to be much better this update.

snecko eye with the watcher is just awful! I usually can do something with it with ironclad, or even with the defect and its expensive powers, but it messes up everything with the watcher.
I still haven't unlocked the last unlock of card-relics of the watcher, but I doubt it has enough cards to make expensive cards for blocking available consistently.
And I haven't found any strategy that can work with velvet choker, never enough power in few cards to get enough blocking and also damage.
What do you do with the watcher and sneko eye or choker?

[incendia]

I think alot of people's natural instinct with the watcher is to always swap their relic because "1 mana every turn is better then one mana once" But the tempo increase from the Coin Miracle is not to be underestimated and it does a ton of work for your early game and losing it without a better substitude can be really damaging to a run especially at higher ascensions. There are some very clear winners in the boss relic pool but I don't think its neccesarily a no brainer to swap out the base relic and personally I'll frequently opt for a safer option.

I also think the snecko eye is suprisingly bad on the watcher even though it's frequently the optimal pick for the rest of the roster.

[Swirler]

You guys are swapping out your starter relic?
wat.

That's wild son.

Watcher's relic is amazing. Retain + 1 mana on whatever turn you need it is incredibly powerful utility.
It fits in perfectly with their playstyle as well.

I very rarely roll the dice on the starter relic. I'm not brave enough for that.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Swirler:

Watcher's relic is amazing.

I agree it's good, some people have found it weak since the start of the beta though. Swapping isn't a bad choice either though.

Originally posted by Voidmonger:

What do you do with the watcher and sneko eye or choker?

Snecko Eye awful on Watcher? She has so many high value, high cost cards! It's a common consensus among most people that have played her for a while that Snecko Eye is busted on Watcher.

Choker is fine for similar reasons, but you can't play as many cards per turn, so you really need to capitalize on high value, high cost cards. You need to avoid the more spammy builds like stance dancing though.

[incendia]

I think it's one of those moves that's much better on A0 and people will often only take note of tangible effects like rolling a positive boss relic and they won't actively consider all the times that having a miracle would have saved them 10 health in a fight.

[Gentlest Giant]

If you roll choker first floor - great! Now you know what you have and have the perfect opportunity to not make a deck that does not want the choker! You have negated most of the downside already.
Snecko eye is just jackpot though

[incendia]

The issue being is that the watcher as a class doesn't want choker or snecko eye imo.

[Gentlest Giant]

Originally posted by incendia:

The issue being is that the watcher as a class doesn't want choker or snecko eye imo.

I don't see why not. She has plenty of impactful 2+ cost cards that will make perfect sense to pick if you have either of them.
Like any other class, you have to adjust to the choker. Not sure why she wouldn't.

[incendia]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Originally posted by incendia:

The issue being is that the watcher as a class doesn't want choker or snecko eye imo.

I don't see why not. She has plenty of impactful 2+ cost cards that will make perfect sense to pick if you have either of them.
Like any other class, you have to adjust to the choker. Not sure why she wouldn't.

I don't think the watcher has as many great 2-3 mana cost cards as the other classes and I also believe that the watcher has a very consistent need for alot of the strong 1 mana stance switchers and defensive cards like mental fortress, talk to the hand an halt.
As a result of this she also generates a fair amount of additional mana from calm and is not happy to be limited to only 6 cards in a single turn

Overall I feel the watcher plays far more of a tempo oriented game as opposed to a value based one like you might more commonly see in the other classes.
It's not to say you couldn't roll an exceptional snecko eye run but I don't believe this to ever be more consistent at high ascensions.

Edit:

Originally posted by Khor:

Oh Neow... we are back at "Sneko is Bad"?

Every damn major patch

Don't get me wrong snecko is absolutely godlike and one of the best relics in the game.
I just don't think it suits the watchers cardset and most accesable gameplan all that well.
Nothing exists in a vacuum.

[Khor]

Oh Neow... we are back at "Sneko is Bad"?

Every. damn. major. patch.

[Sinsling]

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

If you roll choker first floor - great! Now you know what you have and have the perfect opportunity to not make a deck that does not want the choker! You have negated most of the downside already.
Snecko eye is just jackpot though

Originally posted by Gentle Giant:

Originally posted by incendia:

The issue being is that the watcher as a class doesn't want choker or snecko eye imo.

I don't see why not. She has plenty of impactful 2+ cost cards that will make perfect sense to pick if you have either of them.
Like any other class, you have to adjust to the choker. Not sure why she wouldn't.

Because honestly with so much built in energy generation and free casts, having a card limit or randomized costs is a bigger hindrance than a help.

Can you build around them? Yes.

Is it better? Probably not.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Khor:

Oh Neow... we are back at "Sneko is Bad"?

Every damn major patch

Apparently

Even though she has shown extreme prowesses with Snecko Eye. It's already tested and proven.

[incendia]

Originally posted by Sinsling:

Because honestly with so much built in energy generation and free casts, having a card limit or randomized costs is a bigger hindrance than a help.

Can you build around them? Yes.

Is it better? Probably not.

This is pretty much where I stand. I'm sure that the optimal scenarios with snecko on eye on watcher are great but I don't believe in the consistency of it. where as on the ironclad for example its very frequently an optimal and consistent pick. The key issue is not 'How good is it when its good" it's "What percentage of runs does it win me"

[DuckSonata]

Originally posted by Khor:

Oh Neow... we are back at "Sneko is Bad"?

Every. damn. major. patch.

Wellllllllllll....having your retain ♥♥♥♥ cost 2 or 3 feels pretty bad. As does planning your next move with scry and having your trump card cost 3.

Back in September when Adaptation was still a (the) thing, Choker felt real real bad also. If you pretty much only play stance dance archetypes, I can see how you wouldn't want it.