Fire Breathing and Metallicize

[Melchor]

both powers for the ironclad are kindof bad and practically never worth taking.

i think fire breathing should be changed to increase its damage with each subsequent attack played. its what one of the slay the spire mods does with the card and its imo a pretty good idea.

the cost of the card could be increased 3/2 to compensate.

a cap on the damage after 3 attacks could also be thinkable. so it would deal 1, 2, 3 to all enemies for the first 3 attacks, and then 3 for every further attack.

i also see no sense in metallisize since its nerf. its just a bad disarm in terms of block value. instead of blocking 2/3 damage per attack, it just blocks 3 (not worth upgrading for 1 point anyway).

thoughts?

[Zu]

Ye, disarm is generally more efficient than metal mario, but both have their pros n cons.

Looking at how silent and defect generate massive block on a regular basis and with little effort while the janky feel no pain dreams are few and far between sure makes you think that metallicize could use a buff if not an entire rework, but then you remember that reaper exists and go "Oh yeah, stalling for full heals is pretty broken, isn't it? I guess we don't need to buff mario after all."

Fire breathing sucks though and I have yet to see anyone disagree LUL

But whatever. There are reasons for bad cards to exist.

[Khor]

Fire Breathing = Bad
Metallicize.... is.. good..ish
It`s pretty good on act 1, has good synergy with Orichalcum and isn`t a brick afterwards

[Melchor]

Originally posted by Khor:

Fire Breathing = Bad
Metallicize.... is.. good..ish
It`s pretty good on act 1, has good synergy with Orichalcum and isn`t a brick afterwards

the only argument i can think of for metallicize is to trigger juggernaut tbh.

[Mawdesty]

Originally posted by Melchor:

Originally posted by Khor:

Fire Breathing = Bad
Metallicize.... is.. good..ish
It`s pretty good on act 1, has good synergy with Orichalcum and isn`t a brick afterwards

the only argument i can think of for metallicize is to trigger juggernaut tbh.

Even knowing that it triggers Juggernaut I still keep thinking that is a poor reason to pick it up.

[Zu]

Well, since you brought it up:

Disarm pros n cons:
+ Feel no pain
+ Dark embrace
+ Charon's ashes
+ Letter opener
+ Multihits
+ Exhume
- Nob
- Singlehit bois
- (or+?) Artifacts
-/+ Group fights

Metallicize pros n cons:
+ Juggernaut every turn
+ Dual wield (clutch cheese)
+ Barricade (even if enemies don't attack)
+ Mummified hand
+ Birb urn
- Angery birb
-/+ Unconditional

[Khor]

It`s a card you take on act 1 cause it`s a huge 3/5 of a Defend EACH turn, act 2 onwards you can safely skip it.

It`s great? nope
would i often pick Disarm instead? sure
doesn`t mean it`s a terrible card


Number-wise, it`s decent.
1 energy for a lot of block, at the very least as much as a Shrug It Off in most fights

[Mawdesty]

Originally posted by Khor:

It`s a card you take on act 1 cause it`s a huge 3/5 of a Defend EACH turn, act 2 onwards you can safely skip it.

If it's not a card you'd take in act 2 then why take it in act 1? If you take it in act 1 you''ll carry it with you into act 2 and beyond. It upgrades poorly and early game 1 energy is pretty significant part of a turn and late game it feels like it's wasting a hand slot to draw it. It has a decent shot to be hard countered by the final boss if you end up fighting awakened and the other powers that make it somewhat reasonable to use, like Barricade and Juggernaut, also get equally countered by bird. If you play with either of those powers Metallicize is probably just supplemental to those other powers without really bringing too much on it's own. It's a card that has as much potency as a frail defend that sells itself on the idea of a prolonged value in a game where many fights can easily scale from even footing to "oh look, 80 incoming damage cause I didn't kill the thing fast enough". Not to say it doesn't have areas where it's useful but the use is still rather minor.

[Khor]

You take it in Act 1 simply because that`s the Act where you take in a lot of crap just to survive, and compared to stuff like Twin Strike... it actually scales decently and won`t clog the deck too much.
Now if you don`t see its value in the first act, that`s probably just not your style.
It`s not "that" good and you aren`t missing anything by not picking it

just for reference
Vs a "normal" Blue bird, it saves 2 hp each normal attack, and loses 1/0 vs the multiattacks
definitely not hardcountered

Vs a19 Blue birb every power is a liability, but if upgraded would still net 0 in his roughly 3 attacks cycle.

[Mawdesty]

Originally posted by Khor:

You take it in Act 1 simply because that`s the Act where you take in a lot of crap just to survive, and compared to stuff like Twin Strike... it actually scales decently and won`t clog the deck too much.
Now if you don`t see its value in the first act, that`s probably just not your style.
It`s not "that" good and you aren`t missing anything by not picking it:conwayshrug:

just for reference
Vs a "normal" Blue bird, it saves 2 hp each normal attack, and loses 1/0 vs the multiattacks
definitely not hardcountered

Vs a19 Blue birb every power is a liability, but if upgraded would still net 0 in his roughly 3 attacks cycle.

I really only remember the 19+ fight I had with him. The 32 damage 4 tap is a pretty reasonable block to get by the end of act 4. 40 is a bit more deadly. Especially if it was an unupgraded Metallicize but the difference is so bare it's not like the upgrade would be that much better. Metal does help with the weaker attacks but if it hurts you on the strong attacks it might be more trouble than it's worth. If I had metallicize on it's own it'd be pretty unnoticable I think. And if I had metal to combo with barricade or Juggernaut, maybe even both, then those 3 powers alone could make up 24 extra damage on the multi hit. Running no powers you can reasonably stall against the bird. Build up power in other methods like Rampage or Limit Break somehow. Make gains with Shuriken or Kunai. If my main strategy was somehow using metallicize on it's own to win I'm not sure how I'd do it.

Speaking of normal difficulty I do find a lot of the cards and relics are better balanced there. I'd find it an interesting card and would probably try to incorporate it somehow. On higher ascensions, I just think it loses its value and I've turned away from it outside of specifically beneficial scenarios.

[Khor]

Originally posted by junkbarrage:

If my main strategy was somehow using metallicize on it's own to win I'm not sure how I'd do it.

Metallicize never is your main strategy (bar some very fringe cases) it`s just a nice +3... it would be like saying shrug it off is your main strategy

You`re also focusing a bit too much on the bird. For that, your deck should be able to handle a couple of bricks for half a fight, really, if it`s not Metallicize then it`s some other filler card you took to survive act 1

[B the Self]

Metallicize = 1 energy = +4 armor for free endlessly every turn (if upgraded)
DONT MIND IF I DOOOOOO

here you have a top tier list of cards in general
https://spirelogs.com/stats/ironclad/tierlist.php

they are slowly updating since offering was the best card for Ironclad
but it is slowly going down in the rank

you did good knowing fire breathing was super bad -47 score
but metallicize has a 165 score (one of the best uncoomon cards in the game)
rippen

[teekay15]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by junkbarrage:

If my main strategy was somehow using metallicize on it's own to win I'm not sure how I'd do it.

Metallicize never is your main strategy (bar some very fringe cases) it`s just a nice +3... it would be like saying shrug it off is your main strategy:100confused:

You`re also focusing a bit too much on the bird. For that, your deck should be able to handle a couple of bricks for half a fight, really, if it`s not Metallicize then it`s some other filler card you took to survive act 1

+1

[Mawdesty]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by junkbarrage:

If my main strategy was somehow using metallicize on it's own to win I'm not sure how I'd do it.

Metallicize never is your main strategy (bar some very fringe cases) it`s just a nice +3... it would be like saying shrug it off is your main strategy:100confused:

You`re also focusing a bit too much on the bird. For that, your deck should be able to handle a couple of bricks for half a fight, really, if it`s not Metallicize then it`s some other filler card you took to survive act 1

Shrug It Off is OP. I defeated Donu and Deca by shrugging them to death. Letter opener of course but card draw is so powerful anyway. It gives a level of manipulation on a meta level and any kind of draw can create an infinite or semi infinite. Play the same two shrugs 5 times in a turn and then Body Slam. Or just have an active Juggernaut maybe. Abacus makes Shrug worth so much more and Sundial gives energy back. Relics that are genericaly synergistic with card draw.

Also, my fixation on Awakened is from the view point that she is a complete dud of a boss. Easiest one to beat hands down. Of course if you run a heavy power deck that probably changes but in any deck without powers she's a free win. And taking only one or two powers is really all you need if you fight the other foes. That's where my logic goes on the matter.

Also what is this "fill my deck with trash to survive" idea coming from? A card that is good in the first act but terrible in the next two sounds like you're playing to the wrong win condition. Act 1 is the first hurdle. My opinion, prepare for the hard parts and endure a bad time in act 1. If you fail you can immediately get back into it. If you beat the first boss you've prolly got a setup for a victory. I'm not gonna take cards that only help me beat the first boss without considering how well they hold up in the late game.

[Mawdesty]

Originally posted by 〤 MrWorthless (AWAY):

Metallicize = 1 energy = +4 armor for free endlessly every turn (if upgraded)
DONT MIND IF I DOOOOOO

here you have a top tier list of cards in general
https://spirelogs.com/stats/ironclad/tierlist.php

they are slowly updating since offering was the best card for Ironclad
but it is slowly going down in the rank

you did good knowing fire breathing was super bad -47 score
but metallicize has a 165 score (one of the best uncoomon cards in the game)
rippen

..... -.-

I can't help but feel like you are directing this at me. I have no need for such a list and you are free to upgrade metallicize for that 1 extra block. When I have the chance to upgrade it's usually on a card that will make more of a difference in combat. Like Battle Trance, Burning Pact, Body Slam, Barricade, Rampage, Demon Form, Limit Break, Shrug it off and so on like that. I might avoid the card unless under certain circumstances but you are free to pick them up as you please.

[B the Self]

Originally posted by junkbarrage:

Originally posted by 〤 MrWorthless (AWAY):

Metallicize = 1 energy = +4 armor for free endlessly every turn (if upgraded)
DONT MIND IF I DOOOOOO

here you have a top tier list of cards in general
https://spirelogs.com/stats/ironclad/tierlist.php

they are slowly updating since offering was the best card for Ironclad
but it is slowly going down in the rank

you did good knowing fire breathing was super bad -47 score
but metallicize has a 165 score (one of the best uncoomon cards in the game)
rippen

..... -.-

I can't help but feel like you are directing this at me. I have no need for such a list and you are free to upgrade metallicize for that 1 extra block. When I have the chance to upgrade it's usually on a card that will make more of a difference in combat. Like Battle Trance, Burning Pact, Body Slam, Barricade, Rampage, Demon Form, Limit Break, Shrug it off and so on like that. I might avoid the card unless under certain circumstances but you are free to pick them up as you please.

WRONG