Immolation and Wraith Form Nerf

[TheWashableBomb]

"While in the process, we also reworked some of our most unpopular cards."

Sooo... Immolation and Wraith Form are some of your "most unpopular cards", so you nerfed them? What?

Wraith Form wasn't very good but it's worse now. It's basically a death sentence unless you kill everything in three turns and costs a huge amount. Intangible isn't that awesome.

Immolation was a fun card that could be made very powerful in a few situations. Now it just hurts you for a minor damage buff.

EDIT: I'm wrong; it's not a nerf. It sure is less interesting though and another step toward making the aggro meta the only one that matters.

[Error404]

Grohuf님이 먼저 게시:

Wraith form looks very similiar to Corruption. Activate power and timer starts ticking. With corruption you will end up without defense cards. With Wrait form you will end up without dexterity. You can prolong positive effect of corruption by taking more skills to your deck. And you can reduce negative effect of Wraith form by having more dexterity (from footwork for example). Still clock is ticking.

You know, I was about to make that comparison as well. Thing is that Corruption doesn't stack and Wraith Form does.

[Mordencranst]

Darktenki님이 먼저 게시:

Grohuf님이 먼저 게시:

Wraith form looks very similiar to Corruption. Activate power and timer starts ticking. With corruption you will end up without defense cards. With Wrait form you will end up without dexterity. You can prolong positive effect of corruption by taking more skills to your deck. And you can reduce negative effect of Wraith form by having more dexterity (from footwork for example). Still clock is ticking.

You know, I was about to make that comparison as well. Thing is that Corruption doesn't stack and Wraith Form does.

One thing I would say is that dex stacking will honestly do precious little against the wraith form debuff usually, it's a VERY fast downtick, at the very least it isn't reliable. However having other independent forms of block counters it quite nicely, After Image being the main one which springs to mind (who'd have thunk it, if you put two really good rares in the same deck they are good together)

[Morphic]

Wasn't digging the Wraith Form change since I actually liked it before in certain situations/setups.

However, after playing around a bit, New Wraith Form is just crazy. It's basically a clutch Defense card aka "invulernable". It allows you to completely and utterly negate a lot of the most threatening Elite/Boss attacks.(Executes, Stabbings, etc.)

Not digging the -Dex "timer" that is imposed on you... but you can counter that in a few ways. Kunai(?) basically made that not exist with my Shiv Deck, either I gained Dex or simply didn't lose any. You actually have quite a few options with Wraith Form now, IMO.

Immolation I haven't really played with yet so don't really know. Overall I'd say I like new Wraith Form even if it is completely different.(Artwork no longer fits IMO)

[Serell]

Sad to see what happened to Immolate. True, Immolate was not an often pick, but it did have its uses. It served a niche. Now it's just trash. 2 energy 18 damage and a burn in your draw pile is just garbage. I wouldn't even take it if it didn't put a burn in your deck. AoE that isn't Whirlwind is completely overrated.

[Error404]

Serell님이 먼저 게시:

Sad to see what happened to Immolate. True, Immolate was not an often pick, but it did have its uses. It served a niche. Now it's just trash. 2 energy 18 damage and a burn in your draw pile is just garbage. I wouldn't even take it if it didn't put a burn in your deck. AoE that isn't Whirlwind is completely overrated.

Evolve says hi. Also, exhaust and dazed say hi, because at least imo, reckless charge is great. Now I see Immolate as a costiler and beefier Wild Strike that hits everyone, not a boss killer, but eh.

[Awe]

Whirlwind is heavily overrated lol, is the weakest Aoe.

[Rett]

Awe님이 먼저 게시:

Whirlwind is heavily overrated lol, is the weakest Aoe.

I'm sorry, what Ironclad AoE cards do you think are better than Whirlwind?

Cleave?
Thunderclap?
Combust?
Old Immolate?
Fire Breathing?

[sleepy_worm]

It's nice to see someone like Crestfallen Knight, who struggled with their assumptions and landed in an uncomfortable but honest place, all without resorting to sarcasm or dishonesty. Because we all know Wraith Form is powerful now, Whirlwind always was, and Rett is insufferable. Let's not deny these truths.

[Awe]

Rett님이 먼저 게시:

Awe님이 먼저 게시:

Whirlwind is heavily overrated lol, is the weakest Aoe.

I'm sorry, what Ironclad AoE cards do you think are better than Whirlwind?

In practice Cleave is better than whirlwind, more base damage, and i call it overrated coz it is, you will never run a deck based on whirwilnds and i rather use a cleave and a whirlwind after the cleave because is more total dmg, i will admit whirlwind has its uses if u have the energy to wipeout a low hp big encounter but later on with the ironclad mega burst dmg cards are way better, Old inmolate served a porpuse, i have a very specific deck with evolve wild strike inmolation it worked wonders but yeah whirlwind for me is a meme card, if it had idk an upgrade that instead of giving it cleave base dmg gave it something like hit X time (x being energy) dealing Y damage and for every energy spent every hit deal +4 extra dmg than the last one would be a very good card, coz that card is a resource waster, energy devourer cards like malaise dopple and whirl they have to be use with good thinking and not affecting ur current strategy.

[sleepy_worm]

I see someone with a hidden profile and I wonder how many hours they've even played the game. I mean, sure, it is not cool to cordon off debate with narrowly-defined merits, but I do want to know how invested you are in this debate. Just to gauge where you're coming from, no judgy.

[Awe]

sleepy_worm님이 먼저 게시:

I see someone with a hidden profile and I wonder how many hours they've even played the game. I mean, sure, it is not cool to cordon off debate with narrowly-defined merits, but I do want to know how invested you are in this debate. Just to gauge where you're coming from, no judgy.

If u saying that to me i have me reasons to have hidden profile as game hours 80, and i made a solid point in wich why i consider WW overrated.

[Rett]

... i'm not even sure where to begin.

You say that you can't run a deck based on Whirlwinds, but do people run decks based on Cleave?

Also, if you ever watched a speedrunner, you'll know that yes, a Flex+Whirlwind build is in fact somewhat viable. It's not the best win condition available, but it's better than any win condition involving Cleave. I've done uberaggressive strength builds with Flex + Whirlwind + Heavy Blade/Sword Boomerang before. Here's someone who went on a 50 winstreak with just such a build:

https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/87cna5/tales_of_a_strongman_unconventional_ironclad/

Cleave is better if you're only going to spend 1 Energy. No sane person will ever pick Whirlwind intending to spend 1 energy on it. Hell, most sane people will never pick cleave outside of Act 1. You also generally don't go for Whirlwind unless you're picking up some Strength, and the more Energy you use, the better Whirlwind scales with strength.

Old Immolate was always a terrible card. If you have to pick a terrible card to make a terrible card turn into a barely improved Cleave, it is not a good card.

I'm not even sure what you're going on about in the last few sentences.

[sleepy_worm]

Fair enough. It's difficult to see where you're coming from, but I won't accuse you of bad faith again.

[Error404]

Awe님이 먼저 게시:

Whirlwind is heavily overrated lol, is the weakest Aoe.

Why you making the same mistake I recently did? Or are you pulling a xephos?

[robofish126]

Whirlwind is strong because:

1: If you are going to deal AoE you want to actually kill enemies, not soften them up. Whirlwind is the only AoE Ironclad has that can reliably wipe the minions Area 2 Elites and Boss pack, or the Area 3 group encounters.

2: If you have a hand of X Cleaves and Y Blocks, you can never commit more than X energy to Cleaving or Y energy to blocking. Having a single Whirlwind in hand allows you to commit all or none of your energy to AoE damage, allowing the rest of your hand to be blocking and utility, if you need it to be.

3: Ironclad's Str boosting is incredible with Whirlwind, which scales with both "# of enemies" and "# of energy", and means that it doing slightly less damage than other AoE attacks on a per damage basis is rapidly made irrelevant.