Juggernaut

[Venttex]

Juggernaut
Rare
Power - 2
Whenever you gain Block, deal 3(5) damage to ALL enemies.

This is the information the Wiki gives, but I am using the card currently and it only does 3(5) damage to "a random enemy" instead of "ALL". Help?

[Traveler]

It got nerfed a while back because it was OP.

Well, I didn't think it wad particularly powerful, but then more experienced ironclad players disagreed.

[Venttex]

Hmm, they should make it mirror The Silent's "A Thousand Cuts"

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Venttex:

Hmm, they should make it mirror The Silent's "A Thousand Cuts"

That would just make it a copy of the same card. You want class cards to be different for variety.

It would also be a huge nerf considering that the Ironclad doesn't usually gain Block anywhere as often as the Silent plays cards, and that's without even considering the enormous damage reduction (3 to 1 or 5 to 2) against single targets.

[Venttex]

Originally posted by Tripoteur Ventripotent:

That would just make it a copy of the same card. You want class cards to be different for variety.

It would also be a huge nerf considering that the Ironclad doesn't usually gain Block anywhere as often as the Silent plays cards, and that's without even considering the enormous damage reduction (3 to 1 or 5 to 2) against single targets.

It would only be less good against single target enemies, but, since you mostly fight multiple enemies in the game, it would be better to do less damage but hit ALL enemies. It's not that much different as it is, but it's much worse.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Venttex:

since you mostly fight multiple enemies in the game, it would be better to do less damage but hit ALL enemies.

Is that right? I never really paid attention, but I don't remember 3+ enemy fights to be all that common. And even if they are, the extras are often adds which die quickly. The single-target version would deal more damage to two enemies (5 instead of 4) and much, much more when only the "big" enemy is left (5 instead of 2).

I definitely wouldn't use it. It'd just be a more expensive version of Inflame that doesn't benefit from multiattacks and Heavy Blade.

[Venttex]

Originally posted by ;3277925755451691517:

Is that right? I never really paid attention, but I don't remember 3+ enemy fights to be all that common. And even if they are, the extras are often adds which die quickly. The single-target version would deal more damage to two enemies (5 instead of 4) and much, much more when only the "big" enemy is left (5 instead of 2).

I definitely wouldn't use it. It'd just be a more expensive version of Inflame that doesn't benefit from multiattacks and Heavy Blade.

Slimes, Flying Birds, 3x Big Birds, those little caterpillars, the thorn guys+ explosive guys, those linked black slimes, the 4 little minions usually with 1 debuffing 1 charging 1 shielding 1 angered, just to name a few of the 3+ enemies. Bosses would include the Slime Boss, Bronze Automaton, The Collector, and Awakened One.

Increasing it to 3(5) damage to 2 random enemies would definitely be much better. Right now, the 2 cost doesn't seem worth unless you get some really nice RNG.

[Pixel Peeper]

Oh, I know there are many enemies that come in multiples, I just don't know how many percentage of the fights they account for on average, or if the adds are strong enough that it's worth giving up 20% of your damage against two enemies and 60% of your damage on single enemies.

I'm still OK with it in its current form, though. For that 2 energy, you're going to be dealing 5 damage every single time you gain Block in a fight. If you gain Block only twice per turn and the fight only lasts five turns, that's 50 damage. And it's indirect damage, so it doesn't get lowered by Weaken and you don't get injured by spiky enemies and such.

Against a later boss, that 2 energy is most likely going to deal 100 to 200 damage.

[Venttex]

5 damage assumes you ranked it up once and you will be spending more than 2 energy as you will need to spend energy on block moves. That's also assuming all those "random" hits target the boss and not it's minions, that it deals enough damage to the boss (and not it's minions) to overcome it's shield, and that you arent affected by Frail. While Frail won't affect the damage, you need to be able to deal more damage to the boss (and possibly it's minions), than the boss (and possibly it's minions) can deal to you. The only way to make it work well would be to have a really good block deck that contains draw power, energy, impervious, and body slam to supplement that damage. That is a very tall order.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Venttex:

5 damage assumes you ranked it up once and you will be spending more than 2 energy as you will need to spend energy on block moves. That's also assuming all those "random" hits target the boss and not it's minions, that it deals enough damage to the boss (and not it's minions) to overcome it's shield, and that you arent affected by Frail. While Frail won't affect the damage, you need to be able to deal more damage to the boss (and possibly it's minions), than the boss (and possibly it's minions) can deal to you. The only way to make it work well would be to have a really good block deck that contains draw power, energy, impervious, and body slam to supplement that damage. That is a very tall order.

Upgrading this card improves its damage by 60%. That's way, way, way better than usual. Of course you're going to upgrade it.

And you won't be spending more than 2 energy because Blocking is something you would have done anyway.

Random hits hitting adds is actually ideal. It means you can finish them off earlier. You'll prevent more damage and it doesn't increase the total amount of damage that you have to deal to kill the adds and the boss.

The boss hitting you with Frail is going to happen either way.

And finally, this Power isn't really deck-dependent. Unless you're going for a hugely aggressive deck that doesn't block, you're going to be blocking at lot no matter what. This Power simply makes blocking better, even if you don't have any draw or extra energy or Impervious or Body Slam. The only requirement is that you be able to consistently gain Block.

[Venttex]

You are welcome to your opinion, but I respectively disagree. It's trash compared to it's previous description. I think to make it better lower the damage to about 3 to all and when upgrading it becomes innate.

[Pixel Peeper]

Indeed, it's much, much, much weaker than its previous version.
And yes, it having a base damage of 3 to all would probably be a buff overall.

It seems you only disagree with things I never said, so it's all good.