All characters should start with 3 orb slots

[Timbermaw]

it's unfair to the other classes when the defect is the only one who starts with 3 orb slots. Defect can use all the other character cards without issue, but when everyone else tries using orbs they are limited to an arbitrary decision of them having only one orb slot

This is a very important issue and even thought it affects only 0.0000001% of runs it should be addressed post haste

[Dusk_Army]

They used to start with 0 orb slots, making all orb cards entirely useless unless you got a Capacitor card first. Considering the circumstances, I think they're in good shape at the moment given that it's such a niche issue in regular gameplay. That's kinda like saying that all characters should start with a card that sends them into Calm.

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

That's kinda like saying that all characters should start with a card that sends them into Calm.

No? That'd be silly. Why does defect have 3 orb slots as an innate ability? We all know ironclad is the strongest and silent is the most nimble and the watcher prays to god or whatever divinity but that doesn't prevent other people from using demon form or mantra and doing the same

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

We should nerf defect so he only starts with one like everyone else

/s

[LHGreen]

People aren't prevented from using orbs, either. They just get one slot, because they aren't a specific model of robot. Instead, they get to heal after combat, or draw extra cards at the start (that one's a bit underwhelming, granted), or start with a retainable miracle card in their hand. I coulda sworn characters STILL started with 0 orb slots, this whole "starting with one every time" is news to me. I know I ran into that situation not long ago, and I thought "wow, other characters should really have a single orb slot available by default, for exactly this situation", so I think having a single orb slot is EXACTLY fair enough.

[Blood Flowers]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

They just get one slot, because they aren't a specific model of robot. Instead, they get to heal after combat, or draw extra cards at the start (that one's a bit underwhelming, granted), or start with a retainable miracle card in their hand.

Erm, those are the starting relics that you are referring to... and the Defect's is to channel one lightning orb. Nothing to do with why he gets 3 orbs to start (but why the heck would you want 3 orbs on the other characters anyways... if you're playing a daily/custom it literally doesn't matter and if you're playing high ascension... why the heck did you pick up prismatic shard??)

Originally posted by LHGreen:

draw extra cards at the start (that one's a bit underwhelming, granted)

Only underwhelming in the first Act. This is the best scaling starter relic of the lot. Seeing more of your deck on turn 1 is incredibly powerful.

[Timbermaw]

Yes seeing more of your deck on the early turns allows you to play all the power cards asap

Prismatic shard sucks, granted, but why make it suck more when trying to use specifically defect's cards?
If I want to stack 3 frost orbs on silent for free 6 defense every turn that's my business

[Khor]

Well... since it`s probably not gonna change, you can try to look at it this way:
The characters aren`t just a pool of cards, they also have slightly different stats

Ironclad starts with more HP
Watcher with a better deck
Defect with more Orb slots
Silent with a very stylish skull mask to hide her tears

[Timbermaw]

I agree we really need to buff silent

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

I coulda sworn characters STILL started with 0 orb slots, this whole "starting with one every time" is news to me. I know I ran into that situation not long ago, and I thought "wow, other characters should really have a single orb slot available by default, for exactly this situation", so I think having a single orb slot is EXACTLY fair enough.

Perhaps that's the Watcher's card that grants you an attack card of any color? I suppose it's misleading to say that all characters "start" with one orb slot; they only have that orb slot if there is a relevant daily mod or upon purchase of Prismatic Shard. So if you pick Ball Lightning from that one Watcher card, you get to enjoy your "slightly better Strike" instead of its proper effect.

[LHGreen]

Originally posted by Blood Flowers:

Originally posted by LHGreen:

They just get one slot, because they aren't a specific model of robot. Instead, they get to heal after combat, or draw extra cards at the start (that one's a bit underwhelming, granted), or start with a retainable miracle card in their hand.

Erm, those are the starting relics that you are referring to... and the Defect's is to channel one lightning orb. Nothing to do with why he gets 3 orbs to start

Yeah, I know. But to get that lightning orb, he needs orb slots, right? I was just making a comparison to show that the other characters get their own things that are more or less equivalent to having orb slots (even though orbs are, by their nature, just a bit OP). Anyway, this post:

Originally posted by Khor:

Well... since it`s probably not gonna change, you can try to look at it this way:
The characters aren`t just a pool of cards, they also have slightly different stats

Ironclad starts with more HP
Watcher with a better deck
Defect with more Orb slots
Silent with a very stylish skull mask to hide her tears

is better at conveying what I was trying to say, so I'll just defer to it. But I'll add that Silent actually has a very low-cost deck as a "stat", and that while it's difficult to categorize such a thing in this game, "stats" are a pretty good way to think about it.

Originally posted by Blood Flowers:

Only underwhelming in the first Act. This is the best scaling starter relic of the lot. Seeing more of your deck on turn 1 is incredibly powerful.

Eh, I find it scales better if you have more energy or plenty of low/zero cost cards. I prefer the one that replaces it, that just lets you draw an extra card per turn, especially if I get the backpack relic, because otherwise my starting hand can get too unwieldy and I have to let go of good cards that I kind of need to use. And could have used if I drew them on the next turn instead of the first turn. Getting Retain on the first turn takes care of that, but it's unreliable if you don't have bottled tornado. Having a slim deck that reshuffles often or multiple copies of the same card can help too, but the former is something I never bother trying to do and the latter is, again, still too random. Also, the first Act is where you need the starting relic the MOST, since you have a bunch of others in the other Acts, so starting relics should actually be designed to perform really well in the first Act and stay about the same or scale down (but only a little), rather than scale up, as you continue.

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Perhaps that's the Watcher's card that grants you an attack card of any color? I suppose it's misleading to say that all characters "start" with one orb slot; they only have that orb slot if there is a relevant daily mod or upon purchase of Prismatic Shard. So if you pick Ball Lightning from that one Watcher card, you get to enjoy your "slightly better Strike" instead of its proper effect.

Ah, so THAT'S why. Okay, thanks. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was it, including Ball Lightning being the card in question.

[Blood Flowers]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

Originally posted by Blood Flowers:

Only underwhelming in the first Act. This is the best scaling starter relic of the lot. Seeing more of your deck on turn 1 is incredibly powerful.

Eh, I find it scales better if you have more energy or plenty of low/zero cost cards. I prefer the one that replaces it, that just lets you draw an extra card per turn, especially if I get the backpack relic, because otherwise my starting hand can get too unwieldy and I have to let go of good cards that I kind of need to use. And could have used if I drew them on the next turn instead of the first turn. Getting Retain on the first turn takes care of that, but it's unreliable if you don't have bottled tornado. Having a slim deck that reshuffles often or multiple copies of the same card can help too, but the former is something I never bother trying to do and the latter is, again, still too random. Also, the first Act is where you need the starting relic the MOST, since you have a bunch of others in the other Acts, so starting relics should actually be designed to perform really well in the first Act and stay about the same or scale down (but only a little), rather than scale up, as you continue.

It scales well regardless of your energy/costs because it allows for you to get impactful cards out earlier. You don't want to wait until turn 3 to see a Noxious Fumes. You don't want to draw 5 crappy cards on turn 1 and then take 40 damage. A 7 card first turn allows for a fairly decent chance of hitting impactful cards (or at least more card draw) on turn 1.

I do agree that it is really painful in the first Act. I'm not sure changing Silent's starter relic would really help much in that regard though. Her cards are just not designed to work well in Act 1 unless you get very lucky.

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

That's kinda like saying that all characters should start with a card that sends them into Calm.

No? That'd be silly. Why does defect have 3 orb slots as an innate ability? We all know ironclad is the strongest and silent is the most nimble and the watcher prays to god or whatever divinity but that doesn't prevent other people from using demon form or mantra and doing the same

Well ... yes it does prevent the others from using the cards UNTIL you get prismatic shard, only then they can indeed use those cards and SURPRISE, as soon as you get prismatic shard, you get orb slots! :D

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by =M$= Oroberus:

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

No? That'd be silly. Why does defect have 3 orb slots as an innate ability? We all know ironclad is the strongest and silent is the most nimble and the watcher prays to god or whatever divinity but that doesn't prevent other people from using demon form or mantra and doing the same

Well ... yes it does prevent the others from using the cards UNTIL you get prismatic shard, only then they can indeed use those cards and SURPRISE, as soon as you get prismatic shard, you get orb slots! :D

Yes, ONE, as opposed to three
that is the whole point of this thread!

[=M$= Oroberus]

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Originally posted by =M$= Oroberus:

Well ... yes it does prevent the others from using the cards UNTIL you get prismatic shard, only then they can indeed use those cards and SURPRISE, as soon as you get prismatic shard, you get orb slots! :D

Yes, ONE, as opposed to three
that is the whole point of this thread!

Pretty much more then enough, given the fac,t that even with prismatic shard, you probably won't ever get more then 2 or 3 orb cards ever xD

But if it's that big of a gripe for you, mod it, try it and then come to the conclusion that:

1. Prismatic Shard is a BAAAAD relic
2. You won't ever get enough orb cards to be effective with using them
3. Going down this road you pretty much took away the specific strength of your character and traded it for a pretty weak gimmick for their class

[Timbermaw]

Originally posted by =M$= Oroberus:

Originally posted by Timbermaw:

Yes, ONE, as opposed to three
that is the whole point of this thread!

snip

You're missing the point. I'm asking why can defect get storm of steel and become a shiv master while ironclad can't take electrodynamics and become the lightning god. Just focus on the question and stop giving excuses!