Luck Based Game

[Jyscalus]

RNG is way out of control

[Dusk_Army]

Noted for the umpteenth time. Goodbye.

[Khor]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Noted for the umpteenth time. Goodbye.

They are finally wearing you down too

[Jyscalus]

lol :)

[The Yeen Queen]

Welcome to roguelites. If you don't like it there are plenty of other genres.

As I've noted previously, the heavy RNG element doesn't mean skill is irrelevant. Skill helps you plan for and deal with the variables the RNG throws at you.

I seriously don't get why people keep bringing up the luck thing like that makes it a bad game...

[Jyscalus]

Originally posted by The Dark Tyger:

Welcome to roguelites. If you don't like it there are plenty of other genres.

As I've noted previously, the heavy RNG element doesn't mean skill is irrelevant. Skill helps you plan for and deal with the variables the RNG throws at you.

I seriously don't get why people keep bringing up the luck thing like that makes it a bad game...

With all due respect, I think it's because of how much luck is required in order to have a good run. It's not my first RL. I am familiar with the genre. This is the most extreme I have seen though.

[GalloglassCA]

*looks at win rates of top players*......sure mate.

[The Yeen Queen]

Originally posted by Jyscalus:

Originally posted by The Dark Tyger:

Welcome to roguelites. If you don't like it there are plenty of other genres.

As I've noted previously, the heavy RNG element doesn't mean skill is irrelevant. Skill helps you plan for and deal with the variables the RNG throws at you.

I seriously don't get why people keep bringing up the luck thing like that makes it a bad game...

With all due respect, I think it's because of how much luck is required in order to have a good run. It's not my first RL. I am familiar with the genre. This is the most extreme I have seen though.

Good players can pretty consistently win A20 heart kills. ( Note: I am NOT one of those players. I derp around and have fun with the unpredictability without stressing too much. ) The RNG bites them in the A sometimes, yeah, but for the most part they can successfully manage it.

And what RLs have you played? Because there's a lot out there that severely stretch the definition of the term. Have you even experienced the roots of the genre? Nethack, Angband, Moria, Rogue itself? Because if you think the RNG can bite you in the A here, BOY howdy you ain't seen nothin'. And people could STILL consistently win runs in those with proper planning and tactics.

[nonameyet]

It takes some time to realize how much control you have. If you had knowledge of all the cards and experience with when they appear, you can construct a deck with some reliability. It is difficult to win the first time, without watching anyone else play.

[GalloglassCA]

The whinging reminds me of Darkest Dungeon, where good players stomped the rng so hard the devs had to rebalance things multiple times.

[The Yeen Queen]

Ooh, DD. One of the few modern RL games that I think actually fits the name...

[Jimmy Hunter]

Originally posted by Jyscalus:

With all due respect, I think it's because of how much luck is required in order to have a good run. It's not my first RL. I am familiar with the genre. This is the most extreme I have seen though.

There's that good old "I've barely played this, but because I've played other Rogue and Roguelikes, I immediately know more about this game than you do".

[mldb88]

Also I think another big issue is if you've come from playing other RLs or even TCGs in general, you tend to already go in with the wrong mindset on how to have a successful run. Most RLs rely on getting some super disgusting synergy and comboing off hard to get a really easy/good run. STS actively punishes you for trying to do this from the start.

When deck building in STS, you want to think ahead to what encounters are in the area, see what boss you'll be up against, and essentially build a deck that's decent at handling any kind of situation. Does the enemy flood your deck with status cards? I've got a copy of firebreathing or evolution in there for that. Am I worried about act 2 birds? Whirlwind is in here somewhere. Lagavullain is the only elite left I havent seen? Better grab that hemokinesis so I can try to super chunk it turn 1 with an upgraded bash.

As someone who's currently trying to beat A20, which ramps up the difficulty and turns some of the more RNG heavy events even more in favor of getting 'unlucky', People who think the game is just way too RNG heavy usually just havent figured out how to play the game properly from a deckbuilding perspective. Usually its one of three things:

1- They focus on builds from the get go, for example "im gonna build a poison deck", before they even pick their starting gift. While SOMETIMES this works, its total RNG. Instead, work off what the game gives you, not what you WANT the game to give you.

2- They don't know what to plan for. This one just comes from experience. Unfortunately, the only way to know how to prepare for something, like a new boss, or Act 3 elites you've never seen before, is to run into one and possibly get your face kicked in by it, but that kind of just comes with RLs in general sometimes. Darkest Dungeon is a great example of this, first time fighting the prophet and taking a team specialized in hitting the front lines will probably end in failure, but youd only know to take teams that hit the back line once you encounter the boss for the first time and know what you're dealing with.

3-They don't read tooltips and just focus on beating things to death. Every icon in the game has a hover over text. Read EVERYTHING. It'll fill you in on a lot of important information (flying spaghetti monster changes his action every time it takes damage, Bird God gets more strength every time you use a power card, Gob Nob gets more strength every time you use a non-attack, maneating plant gets more shield that turn the more you damage it, Giant head takes increasing damage as you play more cards in a turn).

While RNG is a factor, its not the be all end all of the game and runs don't just come down to total blind luck. It takes a while to get to the point where you understand what exactly to plan for with each class and when to start specializing and focusing down towards certain synergies in a run. Hell, I've had this game for a LONG time, but it did't really 'click' until I picked it back up again in the past year or so. I went from having only a single vanilla win on chad to being up to A20 with him, beating the heart, clearing the game with every class and slowly trying to wrap my head around defect because it's just so far from my normal playstyle it makes my brain hurt.

Lastly, spirelogs is a great tool. It basically lets you upload a run and it breaks it down room by room showing all of your actions, damage taken, when you got what cards, when you upgraded what cards, how events turned out, etc. It's a great tool to see when exactly a run may have turned south and what you might have done differently in terms of things like card choice, etc. Also the community here is super nice (for the most part... after seeing so many 'game is all RNG, game bad' threads recently they're kinda starting to get a bit old for some of us especially ones that enter more rant territory), but a lot of the veterans here will gladly analyze a run for you and kind of break down small mistakes or choices that eventually lead to a loss.

Just keep at it, you'll get there. Just takes a lot of time and learning from your mistakes.

[LHGreen]

Honestly, I've played games with WAAAAAY worse rng that has to be dealt with, and less choice on the part of the player. This ain't Russian Roulette or casino slot machines or something like that, you can do tons of things to mitigate or even negate the rng and win pretty consistently.

Originally posted by mldb88:

Cut for space

Yeah, sorry, I don't think this poster is gonna read that, because they don't seem to actually be looking for help.

[mldb88]

Originally posted by LHGreen:

Honestly, I've played games with WAAAAAY worse rng that has to be dealt with, and less choice on the part of the player. This ain't Russian Roulette or casino slot machines or something like that, you can do tons of things to mitigate or even negate the rng and win pretty consistently.

Originally posted by mldb88:

Cut for space

Yeah, sorry, I don't think this poster is gonna read that, because they don't seem to actually be looking for help.

True but who knows, someone else struggling might stumble on it too haha.

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Noted for the umpteenth time. Goodbye.

:lolo:
They are finally wearing you down too:lunar2019grinningpig:

Nah, I just know a troll a thread when I see one. People don't generally complain about the RNG with one line when they're actually looking for help. So I thought, "Maybe I can call this one out and stomp the problem with a single Bludgeon instead of many Shivs."