necronomicon + whirlwind is too OP.

[billy]

this needs a nerf.

Whirlwind should only do 2 points worth or not work with it. it's a good relic for various tactics but this is too good a combo.

[grumms]

I mean, it's not like you can get Necronomicon easily

[Dusk_Army]

Necronomicon is strong, but it's no Black Lotus. Try doing this against a couple of Spikers in Act III and watch what happens to your health.

Besides that, this game is hard enough for most people; we don't need to go nerfing combos that require luck twice over (once to get the event at all, twice to get the right book from it).

[Berik Xardas]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Besides that, this game is hard enough for most people; we don't need to go nerfing combos that require luck twice over (once to get the event at all, twice to get the right book from it).

And also, especially in ascension 15+, you gotta think twice before even starting to read the book. You might actually not have a chance since enemies got harder + that event letting you bleed more. And even if you survive the reding - would be bad if it turns out to be a book you don't really want.
Also, Necronomicon gives you an unremovable curse - the other books don't.

[stebobibo]

Yeah, I've had that combo before too, and can confirm it is overpowered. However, I do agree with the other commenters in that it is very unlikely to get the book in the first place, plus risky to read sometimes. It's too rare to come up for the developer to worry about changing probably.

[Dusk_Army]

Hindsight, it's also not the only way to pull off this particular combo. If you happen to buy Prismatic Shard and get lucky on draws, you can Echo Form a Whirwind to the same effect. And if you're REALLY lucky, you get that on top of Necronomicon for a triple shot.

[Caos Spawn]

Bah, seems rather ok to me since isn't that common...

[Zevirem]

It...require a lot of luck to get that combo though. Sometimes i wont every see a whirlwind in a run and the book event not only requires luck to run into, but it also requires MORE luck to get that particular one.
You get a really lucky combo that you should feel happy about running into, not trying to curse your own good luck.

[AshtinPeaks]

It's extremely rare for that to happen though if you think about it. 33% Chance IF you get the event which isn't reliable. Necronomiacon is strong I'm general, but books are meant to be powerful because of the damage you take.

It's like saying deadbranch and corruption are op because you are almost guaranteed a win, when there is no guarantee to get both during runs.

[billy]

Originally posted by Fade_Away:

It's like saying deadbranch and corruption are op because you are almost guaranteed a win, when there is no guarantee to get both during runs.

i think that should be nerfed too

i dont see the point in things that are completely and utterly OP no matter how rare . I've had it 3 times out my last 10 runs , its not like its 1 in 100.

Not knocking the game i love it and this is no big deal but i'd like some more balance tweeks so the game is less about getting lucky and more consistent. Relics and there balance are the games weakest part at the moment , too many awful ones and the odd broken one .

lets have more consistency and less luck on relics. Buff the weaker ones , nerf the OP ones.

[DuckSonata]

Originally posted by billy:

Originally posted by Fade_Away:

It's like saying deadbranch and corruption are op because you are almost guaranteed a win, when there is no guarantee to get both during runs.

i think that should be nerfed too

i dont see the point in things that are completely and utterly OP no matter how rare .

The point is fun. For me, the main selling point for this game is the design philosophy that lets these sorts of powerful combinations exist without nerfing everything into homogeneousnes.

At most these combinations only break a single run, and sometimes not even that. Neither Necronomicon/Whirlwind nor Dead Branch/Corruption is a run winner on its own. Obviously, they trivialize a lot of fights and therefore give you an enormous advantage in acquiring what you need to win the run. But you can still lose with them.

Necronomicon/Whirlwind in particular is kind of upper-middle in terms of overall power. Ending the fight in a single attack is dramatic, but the real utility is ending the fight without taking damage. There are lots of ways to do that.

There are even a few ways to deal similar area damage. Necronomicon with Immolate or Hyperbeam would have about the same effect as Whirlwind. You could beef up Whirlwind with Double Tap and/or a variety of strenth/energy combinations also.

Bottom line, I think you're setting the "OP" bar too low. Although, it is a nice change of pace for someone to say that the game is too easy.

[AshtinPeaks]

Originally posted by faceplant712:

Originally posted by billy:

i think that should be nerfed too

i dont see the point in things that are completely and utterly OP no matter how rare .

The point is fun. For me, the main selling point for this game is the design philosophy that lets these sorts of powerful combinations exist without nerfing everything into homogeneousnes.

At most these combinations only break a single run, and sometimes not even that. Neither Necronomicon/Whirlwind nor Dead Branch/Corruption is a run winner on its own. Obviously, they trivialize a lot of fights and therefore give you an enormous advantage in acquiring what you need to win the run. But you can still lose with them.

Necronomicon/Whirlwind in particular is kind of upper-middle in terms of overall power. Ending the fight in a single attack is dramatic, but the real utility is ending the fight without taking damage. There are lots of ways to do that.

There are even a few ways to deal similar area damage. Necronomicon with Immolate or Hyperbeam would have about the same effect as Whirlwind. You could beef up Whirlwind with Double Tap and/or a variety of strenth/energy combinations also.

Bottom line, I think you're setting the "OP" bar too low. Although, it is a nice change of pace for someone to say that the game is too easy.

Well some can call kunai OP as well, in the right deck, aka a shiv deck. It's pratically a win if played correct like the other Combos. That doesn't mean these should be nerfed. As much as I personally hate ded branch/corruption it belongs in the game as a combination, a powerful synergy.

[Berik Xardas]

Originally posted by billy:

Originally posted by Fade_Away:

It's like saying deadbranch and corruption are op because you are almost guaranteed a win, when there is no guarantee to get both during runs.

i dont see the point in things that are completely and utterly OP no matter how rare . I've had it 3 times out my last 10 runs , its not like its 1 in 100.

Same nonsense as a lottery winner saying "I played 75 times, and I won the Jackpot! It's not like it's 1 in 99999999999999" - but it really is.

[AshtinPeaks]

Originally posted by Berik Xardas:

Originally posted by billy:

i dont see the point in things that are completely and utterly OP no matter how rare . I've had it 3 times out my last 10 runs , its not like its 1 in 100.

Same nonsense as a lottery winner saying "I played 75 times, and I won the Jackpot! It's not like it's 1 in 99999999999999" - but it really is.

Make a suggestion to fix, besides just the removal of items. Let's remove stuff till perfectly balanced makes quite a bit of a limit.

[Khor]

Useless fact of the day:
You have about 7.5% chance of finding a Necronomicon, according to Spirelog

[DuckSonata]

Relevant.[www.twitch.tv]