What's a good "turtle/defense" deck for Ironclad?

[BCS]

Assume I get bad RNG because I usually do. Should I be upgrading Bash first, for instance?

[AlxXavante]

this game is very unbalanced. Too hard. 13hr in and no win.

[Nixmachine]

Well the standard turtle deck is a deck using Barricade and Entrench to stack up Block as hard as you can and attack enemies via Body Slam / Juggernaut / Flame Barrier etc

Bash is useful when upgraded, but In my opinion if you don't upgrade it at later floors it becomes a terrible card compared to other character's starting cards (like Survivor, Neutralize, Dualcast, or Zap) so either upgrade it or remove it

[Jeff]

Basic barricade deck might be something like

Barricade x1
Defend x4
Strike x3 (maybe you were able to remove a couple)
Shrug it off x2
True Grit x1
Body Slam x1
Entrench x1

Upgrade priorities would be

1: entrench
2: true grit
3: body slam
4: barricade
5: shrug it off

You can add a single headbutt which can return entrench or barricade if you drew it on a bad turn. That 0 energy draw 3 is also good to have one of. Madness is also very good for shrug it off.

If you can't get barricade on a run, just a few shrug it offs and a body slam work fine. Deck needs to be relatively thin though, like under 20 cards, preferably closer to 10~15.

[Zu]

Since more and more people seem to be wondering about defensive ironchad, I have a brilliant quote by a certain Joey Nerbs at Twitch dot TV slash joinrbs.

"If you're always blocking for more than the enemy is attacking, barricade does nothing. Consider taking it if you overblock every other turn so carrying it over does something."

TL,DR though:
Feel no pain + stuff that has exhaust written on it.

As for bash, it depends. Usually you just haven't found anything more attractive to upgrade. I mean, +1 vulnerable is worth a lot more than the +4 in stats that other 2-cost upgrades get.

[Fenris]

Big issue I have with the ironclad in general is that this class seems much more luck dependent than the other two. You say "turtle-defense deck". That's great. Most games I've never seen the barricade card. No barricade, no defense. Most games I don't see the demon form card. No demon form, no strength based build. I don't see getting to the final boss without one of those two cards, and I don't usually get them. They're rare? That's great. So an ironclad win is also rare. I've had no problems winning with the other two classes in my ~120 hours.

[Scathe]

Originally posted by Fenris:

Big issue I have with the ironclad in general is that this class seems much more luck dependent than the other two. You say "turtle-defense deck". That's great. Most games I've never seen the barricade card. No barricade, no defense. Most games I don't see the demon form card. No demon form, no strength based build. I don't see getting to the final boss without one of those two cards, and I don't usually get them. They're rare? That's great. So an ironclad win is also rare. I've had no problems winning with the other two classes in my ~120 hours.

shrug it off, body slam, and entrench are as much the centerpieces of a defense build as barricade, and can get you wins without barricade, at least, without ascensions. I don't usualy play on ascensions, but do often challenge myself to get the pauper bonus at the end for not having any rares. the most common rare I draft is feed, to go for the stuffed bonus. I've never drafted demon form, it slows you down too much the turn you play it. strength builds are better off with inflame and flex, and maybe if you want a rare, limit break. I'm something like 35wins 31losses with ironclad, mostly without ascension play but I do have A6 unlocked. I've got alot of those losses going for achievements like trying to win with a single relic too.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Scathe:

shrug it off, body slam, and entrench are as much the centerpieces of a defense build as barricade, and can get you wins without barricade, at least, without ascensions. I don't usualy play on ascensions, but do often challenge myself to get the pauper bonus at the end for not having any rares. the most common rare I draft is feed, to go for the stuffed bonus. I've never drafted demon form, it slows you down too much the turn you play it. strength builds are better off with inflame and flex, and maybe if you want a rare, limit break. I'm something like 35wins 31losses with ironclad, mostly without ascension play but I do have A6 unlocked. I've got alot of those losses going for achievements like trying to win with a single relic too.

This is after the last patch? I'm quite incredulous.

[Scathe]

Originally posted by Fenris:

Originally posted by Scathe:

shrug it off, body slam, and entrench are as much the centerpieces of a defense build as barricade, and can get you wins without barricade, at least, without ascensions. I don't usualy play on ascensions, but do often challenge myself to get the pauper bonus at the end for not having any rares. the most common rare I draft is feed, to go for the stuffed bonus. I've never drafted demon form, it slows you down too much the turn you play it. strength builds are better off with inflame and flex, and maybe if you want a rare, limit break. I'm something like 35wins 31losses with ironclad, mostly without ascension play but I do have A6 unlocked. I've got alot of those losses going for achievements like trying to win with a single relic too.

This is after the last patch? I'm quite incredulous.

well, its more like 4wins 1loss or so after the last patch I think, and these are runs not going for the heart though, just the act 3 boss, I actualy haven't played defect at all since the heart patch, so I don't have the heart unlocked.

[Zu]

Ever heard of the exhaust keyword? A simple feel no pain + dark embrace + corruption produces so much value in such a short amount of time, it's nuts. Throw in juggernaut for a fancy way to get damage out of it. Add the common body slam with an optional sprinkle of headbutt for another yet more reliable way of getting damage out of your finite amount of block and win the fight.

[Fenris]

Originally posted by Zu:

Ever heard of the exhaust keyword? A simple feel no pain + dark embrace + corruption produces so much value in such a short amount of time, it's nuts. Throw in juggernaut for a fancy way to get damage out of it. Add the common body slam with an optional sprinkle of headbutt for another yet more reliable way of getting damage out of your finite amount of block and win the fight.

So there we go, you need a rare and an uncommon for a win. If you don't get that rare, I guess you're out of luck...

[Scathe]

Originally posted by Fenris:

So there we go, you need a rare and an uncommon for a win. If you don't get that rare, I guess you're out of luck...

here are some screenshots of some of my winning decks with no rares -

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1590160895


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1590160952

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1590160994

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1590161043

one common theme with these 4 decks, they all have either an uppercut or a clothesline to apply weak.

[JellyPuff]

Originally posted by Fenris:

So there we go, you need a rare and an uncommon for a win. If you don't get that rare, I guess you're out of luck...

Unless you're going for the Common Sense-achievement, you'll always get rares and uncommons. You don't need specific rares to win. Most rares and uncommons will do, as long as you can make them work.

If all you need for your deck to go bonkers is a Barricade or Corruption, take the path with the most shops and look for alternative win-conditions, if you can't rely on a specific key-card to show up.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Fenris:

Originally posted by Zu:

Ever heard of the exhaust keyword? A simple feel no pain + dark embrace + corruption produces so much value in such a short amount of time, it's nuts. Throw in juggernaut for a fancy way to get damage out of it. Add the common body slam with an optional sprinkle of headbutt for another yet more reliable way of getting damage out of your finite amount of block and win the fight.

So there we go, you need a rare and an uncommon for a win. If you don't get that rare, I guess you're out of luck...

I halfway expected you'd reach that conclusion whilst the point was that either juggernaut or body slam can be your primary source of damage that scales with gaining tons of block. Note how I labeled body slam with the optional headbutt as more reliable by virtue of them being common.

(If the rare you meant is dark embrace: That one isn't even necessary the more shrugs and / or battle trances you have. Or, super crazy idea, try runic pyramid more often.)

And like, juggernaut wasn't even on my radar for the longest time until I saw it in action with feel no pain. It's kinda like playing spot weakness twice with an upgraded sword boomerang. So simple yet so efficient. No rares involved in the latter, and neither is it exclusive to any deck in particular. You can just have these two cards in your deck and be a happy camper.


Addendum in regards to Scathe's screenshots:

Don't be fooled into thinking smol decks are the only way to go. 20something+ is regularly the size you end up at higher difficulties, so keep that in mind should you ever stick around long enough to find interest in climbing.
Will probably go find relevant screenshots when I have more time later.


Hyper edit:
So here you go.[imgur.com]

20 recent runs (mostly more than 25 cards) that could have your name on them. Notice anything? "Wow, that's a lotta demon forms and juggernauts and even barricade."
Yep. Shoutouts to the two runs that only had limit break.

What does that tell you though? Without exception, I was given at least one very obvious win condition for longer fights with more than enough rare pickups to spare so I never even had to figure out a way to make do without rares at all.

Side note: Two of these have dead branch corruption which is broken.


Super important note to dispel misconceptions:

None of these "very obvious win conditions" mean squat if the rest of the run is going poorly due to a variety of reasons including but not limited to a very low number of upgrades, too many cards that only exist to deal frontloaded damage, spending your resources on drawing way more cards than you can play without even cycling to anything important repeatedly, the opposite of drawing too few appropriate cards in relation to all the energy you could spend, or just getting no relics that really do anything in combat so your early game suffers which puts the whole run in a tough spot.


Rambly stuff which refers to nobody in particular:

So, I guess if you'd like to arbitrarily limit yourself to only playing hyper defensive runs, I guess it sucks if the game chooses to give you mostly strength scaling instead.
But that's the thing right? Besides the draft modifier in custom mode, this is not a game where you construct a deck first and play the run second. They happen simultaneously. Embrace it and you'll be less frustrated.

[Fenris]

Since the last patch dropped, I set out to beat the first three acts with each character so that I could see act 4. I did it with the defect on my first try. Lovely. I did it with the silent on my second try. Awesome. I still haven't done it with the ironclad after 20+ tries. That must mean something.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Fenris:

Since the last patch dropped, I set out to beat the first three acts with each character so that I could see act 4. I did it with the defect on my first try. Lovely. I did it with the silent on my second try. Awesome. I still haven't done it with the ironclad after 20+ tries. That must mean something.

Idk. I'm the worst with chad, looking at my beta branch win rates. Seen others who are worst with silent or worst with defect. All that it means is that different people have different skill sets. Would be kinda boring if every class required the exact same "qualifications" to play optimally, right?

New page edit:
I just noticed one of my runs had an upgraded limit break and the only enabler was shuriken LUL
I vaguely remember super early feed and singing bowl compensating tremendously. So much for obvious win conditions LUL