Tier List: Ironclad

[Sun]

I tried to make a tier list for the Ironclad. It can be tweaked, what do you think?

Tier 1 (always good)
Double Tap
Offering

Tier 2 (these cards generally perform well according to a strategy)
Battle Trance
Body Slam
Corruption
Demon Form
Dual Wield
Evolve
Feed
Feel No Pain
Fiend Fire
Impervious
Inflame
Limit Break
Whirlwind


Tier 3 (these cards are good but can be not enough)
Armaments
Barricade
Bludgeon
Carnage
Clash
Cleave
Disarm
Exhume
Flex
Ghostly Armor
Heavy Blade
Hemokinesis
Immolate
Infernal Blade
Iron Wave
Metallicize
Perfected Strike
Power Through
Rage
Reaper
Rupture
Searing Blow
Second Wind
Shockwave
Shrug it Off
Spot Weakness
Uppercut
Warcry
Wild Strike


Tier 4 (these cards are mostly situational, can perform with a well established strategy)
Bash
Blood for Blood
Bloodletting
Brutality
Burning Pact
Clothesline
Dark Embrace
Dropkick
Entrench
Fire Breathing
Flame Barrier
Havoc
Headbutt
Intimidate
Juggernaut
Pommel Strike
Pummel
Rampage
Reckless Charge
Seeing Red
Sentinel
Sever Soul
Sword Boomerang
Thunderclap
True Grit
Twin Strike

Tier 5 (these cards don’t perform well most of the time)
Anger
Combust
Defend
Strike

Tier 6 (irrelevant card in all strategies)
Berserk



EDIT:

- Searing blow goes from tier 5 to tier 3 (reddit comment).

- Dual wield goes into tier 2 (Sinsling comment).

- Impervious and whirlwind go in tier 2 (reddit comment).

- Metallicize, armaments, carnage go up. Clash, Rage, Flex go down (Romain672 comment).

- Heavy Blade goes into tier 3 as it's not that better than a sword boomerang (Reddit comment)

- Sorted alphabetically (reddit comment)

- Juggernaut goes to tier 4 (pop pop comment)

- debate: should battle trance be on Tier 1? (reddit comment) Double Tap on tier 2? (Romain672 comment)

[Romain672]

I think we need a survey if someone want create a 'good' tier list.

[Sun]

Romain672 eredeti hozzászólása:

Main différence (2+ tiers) with mine. But apprently, you see too much speedrun of the game. And I didn't talk about a lot of card, because I didn't played them enough, like Barricade.

Whirlwind : Need a deck based on that card. This card... You need a lot of support for it. So not in this Tier.
Double Tap : Bad with one boss Relic and Time eater. And it just dilute the deck. Not a bad card overall, but not on this Tier too.
Clash : Just why? You play only the speedrun strategy? It force you to play all your defend, so you can't have a defensive oriented deck, and as soon as you add one statut, this card became useless.
Flex : It doesn't help for combo, except with Whirlwind. You overvalue this strategy.
Heavy Blade : Good with only few strength oriented build #speedrun. Useless else.
Rage : Seem really weak, even with the changes.
Warcry : Warcry+ is good. So you need to use one upgrade for that card to be usefull (except for some specific combo). It cost a lot.
Shockwave : I think you undervalue that card. Not sure anyway.
Armements : It's really good early on.
Metallicize : mmm. 4 block each turn is not enough for you ? You want first/second turn kill at act 3? Speedrun deck is like the only deck where metallicize seems not good. I put that card Tier 1.
Carnage : It's a really good early card who doesn't remove combo for late game.
Havoc : Many players will not be agree, but I think it should be not that low.

Very interesting comment. I updated the list, whirlwind has already been replaced in tier 2. For double tap, i don't know what do think, maybe if other think the same, it could go on tier 2.


Thank you for taking time on it.

[Kuro]

Doesn't self damage nullify your no-damage score bonus? Offering is great but if so then it simply can't be used to maximize score on (sub) boss encounters.

[Sinsling]

Fox eredeti hozzászólása:

Doesn't self damage nullify your no-damage score bonus? Offering is great but if so then it simply can't be used to maximize score on (sub) boss encounters.

We are hoping this gets changed to only being caused by unblocked damage from an enemy.

[Kuro]

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

Fox eredeti hozzászólása:

Doesn't self damage nullify your no-damage score bonus? Offering is great but if so then it simply can't be used to maximize score on (sub) boss encounters.

We are hoping this gets changed to only being caused by unblocked damage from an enemy.

Yeah I completely agree, or at the very least keep the bonus if you manage to end the fight with the same or more health.

[Sinsling]

Fox eredeti hozzászólása:

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

We are hoping this gets changed to only being caused by unblocked damage from an enemy.

Yeah I completely agree, or at the very least keep the bonus if you manage to end the fight with the same or more health.

That would weight obtaining the bonus in the favor of the ironclad or any other class that has self heal abilities.

[Sun]

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

Sun of a Beach eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm OK with you on dual wield. Dual wield / Clash is super powerful btw. So I changed the list to put it into tier 2.

But you can double tap whirlwind and you can't with dual wield, there's also a question of energy. Same with body slam, the fact is when upgraded, it worth 0 energy which is excellent for an attack which can go to 100 attack power or more sometimes. So idk.

Actually, the tier 5 is here because I tried multiple times to go multiple berserks + whirlwind and I cannot win with that, mostly because of the fact it doesn't add energy on the same turn but on the next turn. So you're already half HP + you can't play efficiently on the turn you play this card. I prefer personnally having a strike than berserk.

But thanks for your interesting comment.

I was already aware of body slam's 0 cost when making my statement. The fact still stands that without reliable block gain it is a dead card. Yes, it is damn good "according to strategy", but in a tiered setting you have it placed above cards it relies on to function, and which should come first. That is why I said "classes" would be a better term.

Sorry Sinsling, I didn't see your comment. Actually, best use of Body Slam is with corruption/feel no pain/impervious which are in same tier. Even a defend could get you 20 blocks+ with 3 feel no pain.


Barricade could be tier 2 cause it makes this strategy shine, nevertheless, it's a dead weight at the beginning of the game since it costs 3 energies. So I'm not sure to put it in tier 2. And impervious + body slam+ = 30 damages + 30 blocks for 2 energies, even with nothing else, which is pretty huge.

[Sinsling]

Sun of a Beach eredeti hozzászólása:

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

I was already aware of body slam's 0 cost when making my statement. The fact still stands that without reliable block gain it is a dead card. Yes, it is damn good "according to strategy", but in a tiered setting you have it placed above cards it relies on to function, and which should come first. That is why I said "classes" would be a better term.

Sorry Sinsling, I didn't see your comment. Actually, best use of Body Slam is with corruption/feel no pain/impervious which are in same tier. Even a defend could get you 20 blocks+ with 3 feel no pain.


Barricade could be tier 2 cause it makes this strategy shine, nevertheless, it's a dead weight at the beginning of the game since it costs 3 energies. So I'm not sure to put it in tier 2. And impervious + body slam+ = 30 damages + 30 blocks for 2 energies, even with nothing else, which is pretty huge.

Except your impervious exhausts, making it a 1 trick show. You also are suggesting a card set that is going to burn up all of your defense gain without a dead branch. Also, would you honestly suggest a build that requires playing 4 powers to hit peak performance and includes a power that costs 3(2) energy without barricade to actually keep the defense gained?

You also just pointed out the problem I've been trying to make: body slam does not take precedent over the cards that make it work. In an actual tiered system, it would be ranked under a number of cards on this list.

[Sun]

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

Sun of a Beach eredeti hozzászólása:

Sorry Sinsling, I didn't see your comment. Actually, best use of Body Slam is with corruption/feel no pain/impervious which are in same tier. Even a defend could get you 20 blocks+ with 3 feel no pain.


Barricade could be tier 2 cause it makes this strategy shine, nevertheless, it's a dead weight at the beginning of the game since it costs 3 energies. So I'm not sure to put it in tier 2. And impervious + body slam+ = 30 damages + 30 blocks for 2 energies, even with nothing else, which is pretty huge.

Except your impervious exhausts, making it a 1 trick show. You also are suggesting a card set that is going to burn up all of your defense gain without a dead branch. Also, would you honestly suggest a build that requires playing 4 powers to hit peak performance and costs 3(2) energy without barricade to actually keep the defense gained?

You also just pointed out the problem I've been trying to make: body slam does not take precedent over the cards that make it work. In an actual tiered system, it would be ranked under a number of cards on this list.

Actually, if you didn't, you should try it. Dead Branch can be replaced by Dark Embrace. It works even in high ascension without barricade. But, if you don't have barricade, you will have to rely on strength (Demon Form or repeated Flex + artifacts, Spot Weakness, Inflame, Limit Break). It covers you the time needed to go to a high strength and at this time, you will be able to hit hard enough to win. BTW, with strength, body slam hits even with 0 blocks.

For the fact it needs multiple powers, Battle Trance / Offering are obviously needed. But I can assure you it works. Probably other will tell you the same if asked.


EDIT: blocks only don't work in high ascension btw, enemies hit too hard. You will need at least 4 impervious in your deck to build up a barricade. 4 shrug it off makes you get 32 blocks where enemies can hit you regularly over 30 damages.

[pop pop]

I have to say that juggernaut deserves tier 4. Its insane when you can get multiple copies of it. I had a crazy run where i got mummified hand and 3 juggernauts. Would do without a hand relic thought. You need some sources of armour gain (metalisize becomes 3/4 block and whatever damage you stucked with juggernaut. Same goes for plated armor relic, and even an ornimental fan. Damn, even self-forming clay is good in this build.
Not as good as body slam but it has its niche. Also because of this interactions it plays differently than regular tank build.
Jug is definetly better than combust and anger.

[Sinsling]

Drawing a card is not the same as replacing an exhausted card.

We are now talking about mixed def/str builds?

Battle trance can be counter productive if you are relying on dark embrace or offering, as it blocks your draws. Not a horrible card, but pairing it with other draw cards is not necessarily the way to go.

I don't think you get the point I am making here: you have cards sorted into classes, this is not the same as a tier list.

[Sinsling]

pop pop eredeti hozzászólása:

I have to say that juggernaut deserves tier 4. Its insane when you can get multiple copies of it. I had a crazy run where i got mummified hand and 3 juggernauts. Would do without a hand relic thought. You need some sources of armour gain (metalisize becomes 3/4 block and whatever damage you stucked with juggernaut. Same goes for plated armor relic, and even an ornimental fan. Damn, even self-forming clay is good in this build.
Not as good as body slam but it has its niche. Also because of this interactions it plays differently than regular tank build.
Jug is definetly better than combust and anger.

I had mummy, dual wield+, metalisize one time. No juggernaught, but I still felt dirty.

[bc]

Sun of a Beach eredeti hozzászólása:

EDIT: blocks only don't work in high ascension btw, enemies hit too hard. You will need at least 4 impervious in your deck to build up a barricade. 4 shrug it off makes you get 32 blocks where enemies can hit you regularly over 30 damages.

Honestly, you should play this game a bit more before posting stuff like this.
Demon Form / Barricade are the best rares for Ironclad, because its 1 card = win condition
Double tap always good? and what if you stucked with 3 energy on act 2?
Searing blow tier3? Its like 100% win on normal mod tbh
How does corruption and dual weild generaly performs well and shrug it off dont?

[Sun]

bc eredeti hozzászólása:

Sun of a Beach eredeti hozzászólása:

EDIT: blocks only don't work in high ascension btw, enemies hit too hard. You will need at least 4 impervious in your deck to build up a barricade. 4 shrug it off makes you get 32 blocks where enemies can hit you regularly over 30 damages.

Honestly, you should play this game a bit more before posting stuff like this.
Demon Form / Barricade are the best rares for Ironclad, because its 1 card = win condition
Double tap always good? and what if you stucked with 3 energy on act 2?
Searing blow tier3? Its like 100% win on normal mod tbh
How does corruption and dual weild generaly performs well and shrug it off dont?

Sorry if my comment feels a bit aggressive.

Searing blow is not 100% win condition cause multiple enemies can wreck you and having bad draws can also kill you. I have already lost with this, I speak of experience.

Demon Form / Barricades is good, except on first turns. If you can't build the barricade fast enough, you're doomed and since demon form costs 3 and barricade cost at least 2. It's true only if you have the right relics / right cards (offering at least to get energy). So, it's not the perfect combo.

Having 3 energy on act 2 is always bad except if you rely on clash, where double tap still is good.

Corruption performs nearly always well if you adapt the strategy to it since every skill will cost you 0 energy. Dual wield makes multiple cards of your a best power card (like inflame) or of your best card (can be searing blow+12 is I want to take your example). So, no doubt, it's better than shrug it off which only gets you one draw and 8 block. Dual wield can make you win, shrug it off will make you survive and offer a bit of versatility to your game.

Please, don't start your comment by "Honestly, you should play this game a bit more before posting stuff like this.". I probably have enough experience on this game, since I played it on one friend computer a long before playing it on my personal account. I may have 200-300 hours on this game. Just one question, are you as good as you think?

[Sun]

Sinsling eredeti hozzászólása:

Drawing a card is not the same as replacing an exhausted card.

We are now talking about mixed def/str builds?

Battle trance can be counter productive if you are relying on dark embrace or offering, as it blocks your draws. Not a horrible card, but pairing it with other draw cards is not necessarily the way to go.

I don't think you get the point I am making here: you have cards sorted into classes, this is not the same as a tier list.

You're right on what you say.

And you also right on the fact we could also make a post with classes of cards, list possible strategies like rampage/searing blow goes with headbutt/secret weapon, corruption with feel no pain, whirlwind with flex/double tap, rupture with hemokinesis/limit break, body slam with Impervious, clash with dual wield, demon form with a defensive set and so on. But that just wasn't what I was trying to achieve here.