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https://steamcommunity.com/app/646570/discussions/0/1651043958627355887/
The last one can either just kill you or severely damage you if you don't have AoE cards.
Sure its fine in A1, but later on they start dealing 20-30 damage per turn, or worse, summoning 3 mobs who can deal 10 each + the elite 20-30. I fought this one having one good AoE which wiped out all adds - the boss resummoned them, and before I could draw my spell the second time I went to 15 hp.
Exactly - you risk dying or severely lowering your hp on each elite while you most of the time get garbage rewards. Avoiding elites mitigates the RNG - if you avoid them you can coast through the levels mostly getting occasional relics from chests / shops, with low risk.
Its much better to get to a boss with full hp than having good relics while being at 20% because elite nearly killed you.
Also, from that another thread:
"I always try going for Act1 elites and counterpick beforehand."
How the hell do you counterpick an elite when you don't know which elite it will be?
Rewards were of course unusable garbage which have absolutely no positive effect.
Ended the fight with 11/80 hp. Great. Reward was Nunchaku.
Too bad I won't be able to use it because I'll die.
I heal to 17hp.
Next fight is 17 dmg turn one, I draw one defend, now 5/80 hp.
Somehow I managed to kill the first boss, since 2 remaining fights prior to it were easy.
The boss dropped the most useful relic, compared to that relics from elites were trash.
I also missed upgrading at least 3 cards because skipping campfires and using the ones I didn't skip to heal, all in exchange for 2 trash relics.
Now I am ready to go into act 2 with completely unupgraded cards.
Oh boy can't wait how it will turn out.
Results from run 1: fighting elites in A1 - total failure
Elites are how you power up your character. They give you relics and more gold. Of course you want to fight them.
Your problems seems to be that you don't understand the value you get from those fights and are not building your decks in a way that enables you to beat them. Your failed fight with Lagavulin was not the result of it being too hard, but your deck being too bad. For example, I just played the silent and left the fight losing only 10 hp or so, all thanks to the deadly poison and Noxious fumes I picked up in the earlier combats. And I got a really bad wake up as well, it wasn't a perfect fight. A card or two goes a long way.
Pick up a good damaging card to help damage the Nob and Lagavulin, pick up an AOE card to beat the sentinels, pick up some defence to help survive those big hits. Maybe pick up a tech card if it shows up that will make those fights much easier. Build a deck to fight enemies and bosses, if you don't then you WILL lose against them. But that will eventually not be enough, that's why you beat elites. To get shots at good relics. And you will get some after defeating a bunch of them, also you'll have a lot more gold to spend to buy cards and relics. You always build towards what the game gives you or throws at you, not the other way around.
I see you also blame fighting elites for missing upgrades. That is your fault. Unless you are playing high ascension, you should have to rest at most a single time during the first floor, not a single time if playing the ironclad. Even when having no passive healing, resting is a last resort and a good sign your run is not doing well or you're doing something terribly wrong. The only other reason I can see for having to rest is if you got some really terrible luck during and outside the fights, and were very liberal with hp usage in the events. Just today I did a quick silent run for fun, reached the boss with 21 hp and beat it, all that after fighting 2 elites, taking a 21 hp trade at the start, and not resting a single time. With a SILENT, a character that is notorious for bad early game and having most trouble with early elites. So don't tell yourself it's the game my dude.
Edit: link to a run if you're curious https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1747513689 it wasn't even that good, just your normal Silent run. I got catalyst late into the third act so I didn't have that for the elites as well. I only had the skewer, one DP, Noxious and a bunch of other utility cards.
If you don't fight elites, your character and your deck will be much weaker by the time you reach the last boss. And that is never a good thing. The only moment where skipping elites is a good decision is when you know there is a very high chance that one (or all of them) will kill you and the reward is not worth the risk.
Same as the previous thread. If you're talking about non-ascension, most runs you can just beat down all the elites. If you want to see what that looks like, you can check out some non-ascension runs at the link below.
https://spirelogs.com/pages/profile.php?user=AnonIronchad
If you know what you're doing, you can engage pretty much all the elites without really costing any extra rests. To be fair though, it doesn't sound like you've figured out how to tackle the Elites yet, in which case you will get hurt. Keep in mind the expectation is that you save/use/buy potions to tip the favour of elite fights in your favour.
A1 Elites are pretty straightforward. Like the Tri Sentries fight doesn't require AOE, you really just need to down one of the outer sentries ASAP. So high damage single target attacks work just fine, especially if backed by a fire/attack potion. Lagavulin you'll bleed a lot less with a weak potion, or a Dex potion. Grem Nob having a vuln potion turn 1 so you can kill it on turn 2/3 makes for a lot less bleed.
Keep in mind that some tech cards that will help you out on Elite fights are real good in boss fights as well. Like Ironclad's Disarm or Silent's Malaise neuters the Book of Stabbing Act II Elite fights, and does quite well against Gremlin Leader as well. In Act III, it'll be good against Nemesis, and really good against Awakened One/Time Eater. If you're struggling against Elites, you likely need to reassess how you evaluate cards, and the final result will be a deck that's just outright better.
At the higher levels of play, A20, you still want to fight elites a lot.
https://spirelogs.com/pages/profile.php?user=jorbs100
This profile represents jorbs attempt at 100 A20 Heart kills in 30 days. If you take a look at the average winning statline, it's engaging 8-9 elites on average, excluding event elites. You can also check the cost of engaging those Elites by looking at the average damage taken on the Deadliest Encounters page. Do be aware though that the average damage taken is reduced by good potion usage.
The thing is, you know which elites you risk encountering. You dont know exactly which one you get, but there's only three difgerent elites per act.
The best strategy then is to pick some cards that help against each of those three.
Using the first act as an example, you have Gremlin Nob, Lagavulin and the trio.
Nob and Laga may look different, but they follow the same basic rule: they will hurt you, and they will hurt you more the longer the fight drawd out. They both punish overly defensive plays, so you counter them by picking up some good attack cards. With some extra damage in your decl, yhe fight is shorter, so you loose less health.
The trio is diffetent, but not as much as you might think. They deal a steadu amount of damahe, which you could potentially block. But sinse theu also fill your feck with crap, you will eventually have a bad turn.
So in the end you want dammage enouhh to kill them swiftly, just loke the other two. The difference is that the trio also rewards aoe, so you might want a whirlwind or a combust if you get the chance.
Elites in later chapters have similar patterns, so keep your eyes open and try and figure them out.
Good luck.
3 fights. Events and/or a shop to avoid the 4th as it's when they get harder in act 1. Rest site for an upgrade. Elite for your first reliable chance at trading health for power.
By then, your chances of having a potion are also good enough that you want an elite this early. If possible though, it helps if your path is flexible enough that you can change your mind if you haven't found quite enough tools or for other reasons.
By tools I mostly mean crappy damage. Not as crappy as bane, but stuff like quick slash and twin strike get you through act 1 without picking too many that you regret everything in acts 2 and 3.
Since all act 1 elites punish (with varying degrees) a reliance on defense, potentially great stuff like true grit may have to take a back seat if you're about to fight your first elite and you're still relatively bad at dealing decent damage relatively fast.
The first elite is a 1 in 3, so try to figure out which elite gives you the most trouble and if a tool makes that elite less trouble or trivializes another elite so much that you wanna gamble.
Examples include feel no pain to shut down sentries or darkness to set up vs lagavulin if you already have some frost for sentries and a fear potion or something for nob. It's all very contextual but you'll get the hang of weighing the odds eventually.
The second elite is a 1 in 2 since you can't fight the same elite twice in a row barring the dead adventurer event, so you have a much better guess of what's coming.
All the while, don't forget to pick up useful tools for the boss. You know, the usual stuff like spot weakness for hexaghost, noxious fumes for guardian who pressures you less, or fiend fire if you're aiming to get a good slime boss split (hello, elites have a higher chance at dropping rares).
PS - The common question of elite vs hallway fight late in act 1:
If you're bad at dealing aoe damage because why would you care yet in an act that doesn't end with slime boss, some regular ole bois can feel like mini elites. I'm thinking of red slaver + slime or nasty gremlin gangs.
Usually you'll go "Ok, at this point I won't take much more damage from an elite and I'll get more out of it." Again though, context, so let's say you're a lil below half health, you have an upgraded whirlwind, you just fought sentries, and you're up against slime boss without a reliable way of getting a good split. You might wanna take the easy matchup vs the hallway fight.
Inafter regurgitating a buncha stuff from similar threads.
Also shoutouts to getting ninjad thrice by very similar pointers in the posts above.
In the grand scheme of things, a more archetypical build works better for the Silent... but that`s pretty damn impressive!
The other`s mostly Fans raging about the differences from the books
Well... yes and no. The thing is that Silent gives you the most opportunities for broken combo decks that win hard and Jorbs' style doesn't really allow for those decks to come up.
I have found though that on higher ascensions it becomes harder and harder to get through the early game with a deck like that and survive long enough to have it get really strong.
Jorbs' strategy is honestly the best way to get your win% as high as possible. It's not how I prefer to play, but I do think you end up losing more runs on average if you always try to shoot for the archetypes.
From a quick look:
he`s winning 35/40%
and beating the double boss about 50% of the time with Clad and Defect and a bit less (as expected) with the Silent
If he wasn`t shooting for the Hearth he`d probably win a bit more (because he`s dying to some pretty embarrassing stuff...)
From his logs, he`s pretty much farming Elites trying to get something to counter the Hearth.
Most of his wins are correlated with him finding some key Relic (Kunai, Helix, Clay, Torii, etc)
Now... that's probably the best way for Ironclad and Robot, but Silent has some reasonably doable (card based)builds that WILL beat the Hearth without relying that much on Relic RNG