Why is Silent the worst character in the game by such a wide margin?

[cbbbbbbb]

I've got Defect, Watcher and Ironclad to A20, Silent is still stuck on A12 and it's honestly a bigger struggle than doing A20 with the others. Her rares ♥♥♥♥ing SUCK. Like they're genuinely bad. And yes I know Wraith Form is overpowered, it's also incredibly unfun to play and if it's the reason all her other cards suck so much then remove it from the game, half my runs boil down to get Wraith Form and poison and start praying you get a Corpse Explosion and Catalyst and win. Every single one. Defect and Watcher's runs were highly varied, Ironclad's were a little same-y but nothing like Silent. Also her act 1 is TERRIBLE and it makes climbing with her feel bad because you have to slog through that every time and hope you don't get Slime Boss because if you do your act 2 deck is going to suck ♥♥♥ or you die to him.

This is NOT A20 + Heart. I realize that is very difficult and I've only achieved it on Watcher, but if it were I don't see how things would improve for Silent because stuff like shivs can't possibly work there. Which reminds me why is Ninja Scroll not shop exclusive I detest getting that relic from chests, I could go on and on.

[DaBa]

Get good and stuff.

[JoeVonFo]

I wouldn't say that The Silent is worse by a wide margin at all..

I just returned to STS today after a very long break from the game and had ascension 19 with Ironclad, acension 17 with Silent and acension 18 with defect.

Toyed a bit around with the new character, but so far I don't find her very fun to play, although she seem very powerfull..
In any case.. After having concluded that I switched over to Silent and got to ascension 18 with a shiv deck after a few tries - so it's definitely doable :)

[cbbbbbbb]

I've given it a honest shot (another dozen runs or so with her) and I genuinely just don't see it, she sucks. I really feel she's just the "hard mode" of the game except in a really poorly designed way.

I wouldn't care so much if she was fun but the regular eb and flow of this game is completely non-existent with her, a jaw worm being the scariest thing in the world because you pulled 5 defends one turn and 5 strikes the next is ridiculous. She also doesn't have that one "lucky break" card that might give you fun, slightly less stressful run like that other characters do.

Watcher A20 with the heart is easier than A15 Silent without the heart.

[Khor]

引用自 🔺：

I've given it a honest shot (another dozen runs or so with her) and I genuinely just don't see it, she sucks. I really feel she's just the "hard mode" of the game except in a really poorly designed way.

I wouldn't care so much if she was fun but the regular eb and flow of this game is completely non-existent with her, a jaw worm being the scariest thing in the world because you pulled 5 defends one turn and 5 strikes the next is ridiculous. She also doesn't have that one "lucky break" card that might give you fun, slightly less stressful run like that other characters do.

Watcher A20 with the heart is easier than A15 Silent without the heart.

If you are looking for a real answer:
Each character is a product of his time.

Watcher was made with A20 (and possibly the Hearth) in mind.
Defect was great at A15
Silent and Ironclad came from a time when A0 was "the game", the Devs were pretty new (it shows, let`s be real) and..well... Silent being the 2nd character, had to be made to "feel different" using a very limited... "framework".

The old characters got "updated" and, in Silent`s case, it was done by giving her some pretty OP cards.... which, statistically, balance things out.
For a long time on Spirelog she had the highest winrate. It`s pretty hard even for the Really Really Bad Players to lose a game once they highroll 5 Wraithforms


All in all, this boils down to Silent having limited options for A20.
Highrolling on "good stuff" a la Jorbs
or focusing on the few OP builds, mostly Poison

[cbbbbbbb]

引用自 Khor：

引用自 🔺：

I've given it a honest shot (another dozen runs or so with her) and I genuinely just don't see it, she sucks. I really feel she's just the "hard mode" of the game except in a really poorly designed way.

I wouldn't care so much if she was fun but the regular eb and flow of this game is completely non-existent with her, a jaw worm being the scariest thing in the world because you pulled 5 defends one turn and 5 strikes the next is ridiculous. She also doesn't have that one "lucky break" card that might give you fun, slightly less stressful run like that other characters do.

Watcher A20 with the heart is easier than A15 Silent without the heart.

If you are looking for a real answer:
Each character is a product of his time.

Watcher was made with A20 (and possibly the Hearth) in mind.
Defect was great at A15
Silent and Ironclad came from a time when A0 was "the game", the Devs were pretty new (it shows, let`s be real) and..well... Silent being the 2nd character, had to be made to "feel different" using a very limited... "framework".

The old characters got "updated" and, in Silent`s case, it was done by giving her some pretty OP cards.... which, statistically, balance things out.
For a long time on Spirelog she had the highest winrate. It`s pretty hard even for the Really Really Bad Players to lose a game once they highroll 5 Wraithforms:conwayshrug:


All in all, this boils down to Silent having limited options for A20.
Highrolling on "good stuff" a la Jorbs
or focusing on the few OP builds, mostly Poison :conwayshrug:

I tried another 40 runs or so and I agree, this character just isn't really functional. They should probably switch the order of unlocks around because Silent being 10 times weaker (literally) than Watcher but being the second character you unlock makes no sense for newer players.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

I mean I beat Silent at Asc 20 I can say two things.

1. I can somewhat agree with this.

2. By the Royal Decree of the Internet: Git Gud

This is kind of an outdated guide with relics and some card stuff but I pretty much agree with most of the stuff here when talking about cards/relics (except the now updated relics) used this as a reference point sometimes while climbing A20: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1613845715

[Khor]

引用自 HAWAIIANpikachu：

I mean I beat Silent at Asc 20 I can say two things.

1. I can somewhat agree with this.

2. By the Royal Decree of the Internet: Git Gud :lunar2020playfuldog:

This is kind of an outdated guide with relics and some card stuff but I pretty much agree with most of the stuff here when talking about cards/relics (except the now updated relics) used this as a reference point sometimes while climbing A20: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1613845715

That is always a funny story
That seed was pretty Terrible, yet by selecting a different viable path it became a total faceroll

Still Kudos to the MIA (now presumed KIS) Fluffy Cat, he manage to get the perfect Seed to display how a good play can still win you the Run despite terrible RNG

[DuckSonata]

引用自 Khor：

the MIA (now presumed KIS) Fluffy Cat

He would've loved these threads.

[PKPenguin]

引用自 Wexmajor：

Silent is directly countered by Time Eater in a way that no other character is countered by anything in the game. He goes "lol nope" to not just one but both of the primary ways Silent deals damage, shivs and poison. Why? I can still kill him with a good enough deck but it's just a strange design choice.

shivs counters time eater, you get so many cards to play every turn that you can effectively control when your turn gets force-ended by playing more or fewer cards

[DuckSonata]

引用自 PKPenguin：

引用自 Wexmajor：

Silent is directly countered by Time Eater in a way that no other character is countered by anything in the game. He goes "lol nope" to not just one but both of the primary ways Silent deals damage, shivs and poison. Why? I can still kill him with a good enough deck but it's just a strange design choice.

shivs counters time eater, you get so many cards to play every turn that you can effectively control when your turn gets force-ended by playing more or fewer cards

Makes sense, but I have learned not to trust penguins.

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

引用自 PKPenguin：

引用自 Wexmajor：

Silent is directly countered by Time Eater in a way that no other character is countered by anything in the game. He goes "lol nope" to not just one but both of the primary ways Silent deals damage, shivs and poison. Why? I can still kill him with a good enough deck but it's just a strange design choice.

shivs counters time eater, you get so many cards to play every turn that you can effectively control when your turn gets force-ended by playing more or fewer cards

Or I could just follow the "meta" of the poison nuke

[Khor]

I always wonder how "Meta" ended up becoming a bad word

引用自 faceplant712：

引用自 Khor：

the MIA (now presumed KIS) Fluffy Cat

He would've loved these threads.

F

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

But it’s the meta, why are you acting like finding 50 Catalysts is hard. It’s not even rare value. Just find them around the floor. Just make every card Catalyst and you win.

[Khor]

引用自 HAWAIIANpikachu：

But it’s the meta, why are you acting like finding 50 Catalysts is hard. It’s not even rare value. Just find them around the floor. Just make every card Catalyst and you win.

Meta means "most effective tactics available"
Yet for a lot of people, it`s something more like "Metaflavor of the month i`m too cool to touch"


In our case, given the run, it may or may not be Poison (Like, if you are playing Defect, you first need to find Prismatic Shard. That`s kinda tricky, and may or may not be worth it )

[HAWAIIANpikachu]

Remember when shivs were the meta. Those were the days