About Deva Form

[Consboul]

I'm not the only one to be frustrated with this card, which is much less powerful than the other "form" cards. I have read a lot of comments suggesting this or that, but I'd like to have your opinion on this one: Deva form would create an astral projection that would absorb 75% of any attack if you are not attacking this turn, up to 50%. Is it too unbalanced? How does it react with 3x15 heart attack? I find it kind of interesting, at least it suits the character. And it would finnally give me a reason to pick this card.
Thanks for your feedback.

[Zu]

This might just be me, but on principle I'm not a fan of applying what amounts to 99 super weak. The no-attack condition would probably make it fine but it also clashes with talk to the hand and scry attacks for nirvana.

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced by the current deva form either.

[kimfjeld]

Originally posted by Zu:

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced by the current deva form either.

The design of Deva Form is a bit overkill when you float 14 Energy after playing your entire hand.

It could need some rework, but I see it as a very useful tool in decks with high-cost cards like Ragnarok, Wish and Omniscience, and especially important if you want to have fun with Expunger or Brilliance. A bottled Deva Form can more or less guarantee your ability to play out all your cards and maybe even go Infinite at some point.

The main issue is that the cards Deva Form can really make work, are all Rare cards. Hence it's literally a rare occurence to be able to stuff them all into your deck along with Deva Form which is itself Rare.

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by kimfjeld:

Originally posted by Zu:

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced by the current deva form either.

It could need some rework, but I see it as a very useful tool in decks with high-cost cards like Ragnarok, Wish and Omniscience, and especially important if you want to have fun with Expunger or Brilliance.

Well, not Brilliance so much anymore now that it's Mantra based damage instead of an X cost healing card. It works with Collect, but redundant is an understatement there.

I see Deva Form in much the same light as Snecko Eye: it's an excuse to make a deck of stupidly expensive cards knowing that you'll actually be able to play several of them in a turn. I've also found that some carda are better evaluated in light of how they interact with daily mods, particularly ones where you get to use cards from other classes. Deva Form is amazing in a Diverse + Shiny game, where you start with a bunch of expensive powerful cards.

[Consboul]

@Zu I agree, and it also makes Wallop bad, as well as the cards and combos you mentioned, and I wouldn't enjoy that this much. The thing is that it is much more situational than the other form cards, and much less of a no brainer since you can generate energy pretty easily with calm and divinity. Someone said it is a slow outmanoeuver, and even though it's not a perfectly fair statement, it remains true for rapid combats.
Something else bothers me: Demon Form is relatively slow, but occasionally taking a second one? Sure. And it kills the game even if you have only common cards. Having two Wraith Forms? Sure, it makes it more sustainable. A second Echo Form? Hell yeah, it even means a third one, for the greater good. But two Deva Forms? Meh... Just like Demon Form, it does what it does faster, but it doesn't kill. It has no reliable interactions with cards, and when it has, it is still so slow. Deva for 3 and Study for 2, and you're already face on the ground. Expunger is cool but it is slow too. And Expunger is already good enough with four energy...
So what? If this card has to deal with energy, what could be better? What would make it worth taking twice?
Or what else could it do if not giving a stupid amount of energy?
I mean it is called Deva Form, something more spectacular could happen, like having 2 energy, 2 artefacts and 20 gold for example.
I would take a second copy of that one...

[Khor]

Deva is quite good as it is.
Watcher being able to "cheat" energy more easily than the others makes playing a 3 cost a much lighter investment.
The possibility of playing your whole hand is nothing to scoff at, not to mention turning Draw cards from quality to quantity

Most of the complaints i`ve seen were from people with limited experience, with particular playstyles or simply with a "i find it boring=bad" mentality

[kimfjeld]

Originally posted by Consboul:

[...]but occasionally taking a second one?[...]What would make it worth taking twice? Or what else could it do if not giving a stupid amount of energy?
I mean it is called Deva Form, something more spectacular could happen, like having 2 energy, 2 artefacts and 20 gold for example.
I would take a second copy of that one...

Although the other Form cards entice you to double up on them, the novety of Deva Form is that it provides abundance of an otherwise scarce resource. The upside is that you need to take only one copy of it to set the generation in motion.

Think about it this way: Deva Form, especially if offered in Act 1, may allow you to pick other Boss relics than those that provide Energy i.e. relics that usually provide benefits without any downsides. That makes Deva Form quite unique compared to the other Form cards; you're not forced to pick Energy relics because it's an inherent mechanic.

[kimfjeld]

Originally posted by Khor:

a "i find it boring=bad" mentality

One word: Sloths. Sloths refute that sort of mentality with minimal effort. Sloths are pretty boring yet they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ f-ing Baby Yoda-cute!

[Consboul]

@Kimfjeld I like your optimism, and sloths too. I'll keep it in mind when I see Deva Form.
Anyway I really enjoy playing watcher, and as it is still on beta, a few things still might change for the better.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Khor:

Deva is quite good as it is.
Watcher being able to "cheat" energy more easily than the others makes playing a 3 cost a much lighter investment.
The possibility of playing your whole hand is nothing to scoff at, not to mention turning Draw cards from quality to quantity :conwayshrug:

Most of the complaints i`ve seen were from people with limited experience, with particular playstyles or simply with a "i find it boring=bad" mentality :conwayshrug:

Indeed. It wasn't when it had just gotten reworked, being completely out of place. But that has changed. Cards have been added. Cards have been changed. And now Deva Form makes sense, and can actually be quite good.

[Zu]

Originally posted by kimfjeld:

Deva Form, especially if offered in Act 1, may allow you to pick other Boss relics than those that provide Energy

https://i.imgur.com/v36TuAa.jpg

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by Zu:

Originally posted by kimfjeld:

Deva Form, especially if offered in Act 1, may allow you to pick other Boss relics than those that provide Energy

https://i.imgur.com/v36TuAa.jpg

Deva Form might be a bit slow but other energy cards like Deus Ex and Collect allowed me to play pretty well with just Pure Water as an energy relic. Pure Water is still a bit underestimated. Not that it's amazing, but it's pretty reliable and more than any of the other characters start with.