Slay the Spire
Sykomyke Aug 23, 2018 @ 5:16pm
New Fission?
So how does the new fission work? It's wording isn't clear...

"Remove all of your orbs". So...orb slots? or is just evoking the slots? It seems like a far worse version than the old fission.
Originally posted by Prince Kaine:
Originally posted by Khor:
Originally posted by Zu:

Fine, to your credit, ramping to 10 slots with just an unupgraded capacitor and fission was fun.
Yep... and in the meantime taking a boatload of damage due to all the tempo loss... sooooo much fuuuun:overkill_laugh:
You were not able to play around the tempo loss.... I was, sorry.

After that I'm not going to bother with the Zu fan club, you do not interest me. I am only interested in stopping the WE MUST WIN THE ASCENCION train that I see coming from the devs to satisfy people like him. Hope they will realize evrybody is not interested in playing the same thing over and over again.
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Zu Aug 23, 2018 @ 5:34pm 
Orb =/= orb slot
Remove =/= evoke

Idk. Whatever channeled those orbs now reads "Gain 1 energy n draw 1 ez." Worth at 2 orbs already. Doesn't stick around to be a bother later.

It's weird. It's like scaling in the sense that you exchange tempo for the ability to cycle to your powers, like compile driver, and scaling faster's pretty darn important in act 3 now.

I kinda liked it when it used to evoke n give slots, but having even more empty slots to fill is a lot harder than refilling the few you lost with all that energy and card draw you just got.
I haven't played with it yet, just read the description. Mixed feelings.

One less card that gives orb slots. Now we only have capacitor and 2 relics (1 being a boss relic).

Since it doesn't evoke, it makes darkness orbs/cards even more useless. (Essentially reseting dark orbs if you were to use the energy gained to channel more dark orbs)

Does Defect have an issue with energy generation?? There are already a few cards that give energy including an orb... why does the class need another energy generation card that is rare and doesn't evoke orbs...

Seems devs want Defect to only play lightning orb decks that mass create energy and use tempest.
Last edited by ♥♥♥♥ Goblin; Aug 23, 2018 @ 6:57pm
Prince Kaine Aug 23, 2018 @ 10:13pm 
Originally posted by ♥♥♥♥ Goblin:
Does Defect have an issue with energy generation?? There are already a few cards that give energy including an orb... why does the class need another energy generation card that is rare and doesn't evoke orbs...
Dito. Never felt tthe need for energy with the defect, while I can't count the number of times I wished I had more slots.
Cherry Aug 24, 2018 @ 2:17am 
I just don't understand the reasoning behind these changes anymore
Pumpkinreaper Aug 24, 2018 @ 3:36pm 
Honestly it was worse before, since you were losing all of your orbs for more slots, which meant you had to fill them all up again, which not only can take a fair amount of time, but harms different combos. For lightning orbs you want to be generating them regularly so your slots are full, leading to evoking them regularly for a huge amount of damage. For frost orbs, more slots are better, but dont have many good ways to generate a large amount in a short amount of time, so evoking them all for more slots is going to hurt your defense if you were relying on them. Darkness orbs dont need any explaining.

This new version is decent since it refills your hand and gives you more energy, which means at the very least you're breaking even and cycling through your deck faster. Otherwise it's like offering, except more situational in efficacy.
Sykomyke Aug 24, 2018 @ 5:46pm 
Like you just said thought...it's similar to offering..except far more situational. Offering 1) Got nerfed recently I believe and 2) isn't exactly a great card if you're in a run where you haven't got a lot of defensive options in cards. (i.e. you are net losing health per fight which means you are either wasting too many rest sites on healing,and not smithing, lifting, toking, or digging)

Another point is that the Defect had very few options for increasing orb slots as someone else previously mentioned. Fission was a unique card in that upgraded, you could evoke ALL orb slots, which sometimes was wanted.

You mentioned that it's evoking orbs that you don't want...but you're trying to analyze the card in a vacuum. If you're doing a build where you don't want to evoke cards...why would you pick fission in the first place? You wouldn't. But some people DID pick fission, purely for the extra orb slots it provided in longer fights (i.e. boss fights or elites). Now it's relegated to yet another energy/cycle card which there are already plenty of both in defect.
Zu Aug 25, 2018 @ 3:32am 
Originally posted by Sykomyke:
Now it's relegated to yet another energy/cycle card which there are already plenty of both in defect.
Except more than half the ways in which Defect cheats energy are shíte, so it's nice to have a cheat code that really only interferes with compile driver which - incidentally - is your only reliable source of card draw since overclock and skim are rare and coolheaded needs an upgrade.
Sykomyke Aug 25, 2018 @ 5:08am 
Except once again I'm repeating myself...if you need energy as Defect there are FAR better options.
Aggregate, Double Energy, Turbo, Store Battery. Ever hear the saying "jack of all trades, master of none". That's what fission has become. It gives energy, but way too conditionally and under normal circumstances, the energy you spend filling those orb slots, is then..what? Gained back? At best you'd gain the energy you expended filling the slots with the same amount of energy of orbs removed...

Maybe if you somehow got lucky with getting Frozen Core, then sure...you now have a free source of energy/card draw...but that's a specific scenario. Again, not viewing the card holistically. And other card draw options exist, that if you have extra energy anyways, you don't really need much more.

Also, you cited rarity/needing upgrades in order to have cycle. Fission is Rare, skim and overclocked are uncommon, and coolheaded is common. So when it comes to REALISTIC deck expectations...you're far more likely to get the others, over fission. Which is something you should be building your deck around...(common/uncommon cards). Not rare cards.
Zu Aug 25, 2018 @ 7:13am 
TL,DR down below.

Originally posted by Sykomyke:
Aggregate, Double Energy, Turbo, Store Battery. Ever hear the saying "jack of all trades, master of none". That's what fission has become. It gives energy, but way too conditionally and under normal circumstances, the energy you spend filling those orb slots, is then..what? Gained back? At best you'd gain the energy you expended filling the slots with the same amount of energy of orbs removed...
Yes, these are shíte besides battery, and battery is more like a 0-cost block with a skewed payment model, not to mention that the +1 energy you get next turn can be obsolete at times due to draw rng and enemy intents. That's the problem with generating energy without drawing more cards in the process.

New fission does both of these things so you're less likely to be disappointed by it, and you don't even need rebound, hologram, or all for one to cheat reliably either.
"Jacks" as you call em or "bundle deals" as I call em are good for you. Why do you think cloak n dagger has such a high value ceiling?

Originally posted by Sykomyke:
Also, you cited rarity/needing upgrades in order to have cycle. Fission is rare, skim and overclocked are uncommon, and coolheaded is common. So when it comes to REALISTIC deck expectations...you're far more likely to get the others, over fission. Which is something you should be building your deck around...(common/uncommon cards). Not rare cards.
I cited card rarity in relation to what you require to make other energy generating cards work.
Nobody picks seeing red in chad even though he should benefit from it by virtue of having various desirable high-cost cards because it's really bloody awkward to draw it alongside leftover basics or on a turn when you'd have the luxury of dealing good damage or playing a power, but alas you lost a card slot to seeing red and you didn't draw your battle trance which in your mind understandably justified picking seeing red.
Meanwhile offering: "Ey m8. Awkward turn? Need some tempo? Need to cycle to and play demon form? Lemme help you out."

That's exactly the purpose of the fission rework. Clearly you realized this but I suppose you deem losing your orbs too much of a downside and / or too conditional.
It's funny because the old fission draws and plays increments of capacitors and gives you minor tempo by evoking which is usually worth a 0-cost card per orb without focus. Shoutouts to the fringe case of evoking dark orbs in a deck with few ways to channel orbs.
Meanwhile, the new fission draws actual cards and technically makes those cost 0.

TL,DR:
Old fission was clumsy scaling in itself whilst the new fission enables scaling and at times allows for tempo plays, which are both things the defect appreciates - especially the latter.
This lil bot has the best scaling in long fights already, but getting there is the problem in fights where frontloading damage and tempo matter. New fission helps you out here whilst old fission used to be a dead card in these matchups.
Khor Aug 25, 2018 @ 8:29am 
Originally posted by Zu:
stuff

STL;SDR

Old Fission was crap
New Fission is less crap
Change is good
:cards:
Prince Kaine Aug 25, 2018 @ 8:51am 
Originally posted by Khor:
Originally posted by Zu:
stuff

STL;SDR

Old Fission was crap
New Fission is less crap
Change is good
:cards:
No.
Old fission was different and allowed different ways to play, opening fast orb slot scaling.
New fission does what LOADS of defect cards allready do.
The change is not satisfying for those looking for diversity.

So if your goal is to rince and repeat the OPMEGAWINSTRAT that will get you through high level ascencion it does not help you much.
If you want to have fun it does not help you because it closed some fun build with loads of orbs and different ones.

So I still think, despite all the OPMEGAWINSTRAT fans that it's not a very good change. Armament race NEVER worked in ANY card game, that's why the best card games (especially IRL) rarely needed to nerf, while magic "we need bigger guns everytime to force buy" the gathering had to nerfs/remove cards right after they made it to the shop.
Last edited by Prince Kaine; Aug 25, 2018 @ 8:52am
Zu Aug 25, 2018 @ 9:06am 
Originally posted by Prince Kaine:
Fast orb slot scaling.
New fission does what LOADS of defect cards already do.
So if your goal is to rinse and repeat the OPMEGAWINSTRAT that will get you through high level ascension it does not help you much.
Oh you :'3

Fine, to your credit, ramping to 10 slots with just an unupgraded capacitor and fission was fun.
Khor Aug 25, 2018 @ 9:25am 
Originally posted by Zu:

Fine, to your credit, ramping to 10 slots with just an unupgraded capacitor and fission was fun.
Yep... and in the meantime taking a boatload of damage due to all the tempo loss... sooooo much fuuuun:overkill_laugh:
Zu Aug 25, 2018 @ 9:45am 
ikr LUL

but sometimes tho fam
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
Prince Kaine Aug 25, 2018 @ 10:01am 
Originally posted by Khor:
Originally posted by Zu:

Fine, to your credit, ramping to 10 slots with just an unupgraded capacitor and fission was fun.
Yep... and in the meantime taking a boatload of damage due to all the tempo loss... sooooo much fuuuun:overkill_laugh:
You were not able to play around the tempo loss.... I was, sorry.

After that I'm not going to bother with the Zu fan club, you do not interest me. I am only interested in stopping the WE MUST WIN THE ASCENCION train that I see coming from the devs to satisfy people like him. Hope they will realize evrybody is not interested in playing the same thing over and over again.
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Date Posted: Aug 23, 2018 @ 5:16pm
Posts: 41