Ascension why bother?

[Gnomersy]

Don't get me wrong, I respect that there are people who want just a hard mode to play. However, from my experiences while it increases the difficulty it does nothing to increase the fun of the game or open up new build paths and ideas of the sort.

So, for the average player why bother with anything but ascension 1?

I'd really rather see the first say 5 levels of ascension tied to an increased difficulty and unlock path so say T1: More Elites T2: Harder Enemies, but chance of rare cards increased. T3: Harder Bosses, but pick from 4 Boss Relic choices. Etc. with the just raw hard mode stuff tacked on afterwards for the people who want that.

Opinions?

[Rhinkalis]

I'll admit, yeah, after Ascension 1 it's just about making the game a bit harder. Though I feel like the average player may, after a certain number of runs, want a little extra challenge to test their builds against too.

Though, as I've heard they're planning on adding a TON more cards, making getting what you want less reliable, I could see an argument for compenationg for some of that by getting bonuses as you ascend. Though I feel like a lot of people would complain >_>

[Gerti]

+1....

[Vae]

I think Ascension adds more then one might think. If by chance you are now at a point where normal runs feel like a walk in the park, barring rng, Ascension mode makes it so you are ''forced'' to make a deck that is solid, consistent in what it does.

Increasing the difficulty while at the same time making rare/upgraded cards drop more often, defeats the spike in difficulty. ( nloth's gift is basically what you are suggesting as an innate relic at that point )

Now I agree that at the base off it, no your options are not widened by playing ascension, builds or otherwise. But what it does do is make it so your decisions are more critical, which in a way shapes your build too. Give the Devs some time, come summer, we are in for some
more good stuff to pop up I am sure!

[Warriorfall]

No, I don't think so. The idea behind ascension mode is it being an ascending difficult game mode, if you get extra rare cards and the like it kind of beats the purpose of it. I agree in that most people don't really care (myself included) but this is still in early access, we'll get infinity mode in the future (confirmed) and I suppose that's going to be way better than ascension can ever be.

[robofish126]

I've already beaten the game with the 'obvious' strategies and 'best' cards from my reference point, which means now I'm more interested in trying more experimental approaches. I want to have a Runic Pyramid run, a Snecko Eye run, a Pandora's Box run, etc etc. Heck I still haven't played a Corruption or Barricade or Bludgeon or Searing Blow deck at all, nor won with an Evolve or Shiv or Perfected Strike centric deck among other things.

Ascension inherently runs contrary to that. By making the dungeons harder but keeping your cards and relics the same, it means you are forced to stick to the tried and true even harder. As a consequence it has no appeal to me. Whatever Ascension is in the end, I want it to be fun. Something which forces you to get creative and challenge yourself in varied ways. Just buffing enemy stats to be higher is the exact opposite of how to do it.

[Christ]

The whole point of ascension is to make the game harder it doesn't matter if you think the game is already too hard or any of that it's early access what you're looking for is that remote from click so you can fast forward to when the game is released just be patient and what you want will come and by the way ascension doesn't limit what type of deck you build you can win ascension with the janky ass decks the only one limiting your deck is you don't blame ascension for your short comings

[robofish126]

Originally posted by Christ:

The whole point of ascension is to make the game harder it doesn't matter if you think the game is already too hard or any of that it's early access what you're looking for is that remote from click so you can fast forward to when the game is released just be patient and what you want will come and by the way ascension doesn't limit what type of deck you build you can win ascension with the janky ass decks the only one limiting your deck is you don't blame ascension for your short comings

I think "How do I win the game with less-used cards?" is a far more interesting riddle to solve than "How do I win the game with enemy stats arbitrarily inflated?". The answer to the latter is GIT EVEN GUDDER with the same strategies you've played and refined ad nauseam, which is boring, I'm tired of them already. The answer to the former on the other hand requires thinking outside your comfort zone and learning how to master every card, rather than just the 'obvious' ones.

Heck I lost many of my early games because I couldn't resist adding interesting new cards to my deck to try them out and clogged everything up, but I don't regret doing so. To use MTG nomenclature, I'm a Johnny, not a Spike. I'm not here to isolate what is the most competitive strategies in the current meta then refine them to spit polish perfection, I want to explore all the possible avenues to victory, even the paths less traveled or riskier. Ascension promises the exact opposite of that.

[Rhinkalis]

I will admit, I do find ascension levels after the first a little... Less interesting. The idea of throwing more Elites around adds extra risk/reward possibilities, but everything else is just... MOAR NUMBERS which, while it can certainly add a desired extra challenge, doesn't really make the game any more interesting unlike the first, which is something of a shame.

[DariusOne]

Personally I'm usually not a fan of hard modes at all, but I did like ascension up to 10(can't really muster the enjoyment for 15) because it was more unlocks and progression compared to basic hard mode. Furthermore it gave me a good reason to try-hard when my normal runs had kinda devolved into trying to force wierd stuff. And since the difficulty increase was very incremental I found it actually enjoyable compared to a basic hard mode which I would have just bounced off of.

as far as the suggestion I would rather just see a custom run mode with all kinds of random modifiers you can mess with but no leaderboards and such. You can have a ton of premade modes but somebody always wants something mixed in a different way and straight up having a custom game option seems better.

[Vae]

Mhhhh.... I am all for experimenting and exploring new builds and strategies, but if every card worked with every card/relic whatever in the game, it defeats the feeling of accomplishment and the sense of ''you are the reason you won''. It is like a spelling bee, you start at your school and prove that you can spell, before you eventually go to state spelling competition. You can't expect to show up there unanounced and unproven of your skillset.

Experiment away my friend, but sway away from ascension mode for that. Once you find a new build that you enjoyed and worked to some degree, take it to ascension and push it to it's limit, improve it that way.

Adding new cards to your deck is great, but, theoretically, adding wild strikes will eventually render your deck unplayeable, so you want evolve to get more draw power, perhaps a fiend fire to cleanse your hand from wounds, havoc your top card of the deck to play wild strike and shrug it off and gamble for drawing another wound so you can flood your hand and dig for that offering and true grit away that wound for block.

That was just an example of many there are in the game.

Ascension is what you want it to be, for me it is pushing me to make better decisions, removing that curse instead of being greedy for that flying knee at the shop, because you know everything is out to kill you even more relentlessly as before. The added difficulty is rewarding, even if you lose, what decision made you lose, and could you have prevented it had you played your hands otherwise?

[Orban King Enjoyer]

I got to A5 on both then went back to normal. It seems that your pool of possible win condition cards and ways of going about winning become much more narrow as you progress and I dont particularly feel like being obligated to picking the same cards every time so I stand a chance.

I leave it on A1, though. More Elites is my kind of fun.

If they wanted a "challenge mode" of sorts that would keep things interested, I always thought they would do Weekly Challenges of a sort. Where the card pool for the particular character you're supposed to do the run with is limited. (I.e., no poison cards will show up, no strength cards will show up, etc) and maybe adding random things to some enemies (all elites start with 5 Plated, Elites from any Act can be encountered on Elite Spaces, Shops have a chance for Thieves, All Enemies have Life Link)

[The Avatar]

I am personally a fan of ascension being a harder mode with incremental difficulty increases that don't come with a kickback bonus to the player, but I still find it a little... dull. I'd much rather it be giving enemies random buffs than just incrementally boosting their stats, especially in the higher ascensions.

When I think of a hard mode that was both hard and interesting, I think fire emblem Lunatic+. Encounters getting random buffs like +plated armor, +curious, lifelink, etc. based on both floor and enemies present would just be so much more interesting. Like imagine having to fight the bruiser and mystic fight on floor 2 if they had lifelink. Or grubs with 3 plated armor each on the first floor. Not to mention, by randomizing these you basically significantly improve the variance of encounters at higher levels without having to add new fights. At the very least, it feels like it would make grinding out ascension more interesting and a touch less repetitive. Not to mention, it would make winning a level more of a goal, because you'd want to see what interesting effect it would add (as opposed to knowing it would just be adding +attack and some health to all elite fights).

[Christ]

Originally posted by robofish126:

Originally posted by Christ:

The whole point of ascension is to make the game harder it doesn't matter if you think the game is already too hard or any of that it's early access what you're looking for is that remote from click so you can fast forward to when the game is released just be patient and what you want will come and by the way ascension doesn't limit what type of deck you build you can win ascension with the janky ass decks the only one limiting your deck is you don't blame ascension for your short comings

I think "How do I win the game with less-used cards?" is a far more interesting riddle to solve than "How do I win the game with enemy stats arbitrarily inflated?". The answer to the latter is GIT EVEN GUDDER with the same strategies you've played and refined ad nauseam, which is boring, I'm tired of them already. The answer to the former on the other hand requires thinking outside your comfort zone and learning how to master every card, rather than just the 'obvious' ones.

Heck I lost many of my early games because I couldn't resist adding interesting new cards to my deck to try them out and clogged everything up, but I don't regret doing so. To use MTG nomenclature, I'm a Johnny, not a Spike. I'm not here to isolate what is the most competitive strategies in the current meta then refine them to spit polish perfection, I want to explore all the possible avenues to victory, even the paths less traveled or riskier. Ascension promises the exact opposite of that.

The hell are you on about I'm saying you can win with ascension if you do some stupid ass decks that dont make synergy I could care less about some meta or how people make decks make them how you want the point of the game isn't to win it's to have fun and isn't it just that much better when you do a stupid deck and pull through on ascension mode and if you don't like ascension then don't play it no ones forcing you it's an option for people who either want a challenge or find the base game so easy that the game becomes dull

[Amenophys]

GUYS GUYS GUYS !!

This is Beta, and most of content is not done yet!

[Gnomersy]

Originally posted by Amenophys:

GUYS GUYS GUYS !!

This is Beta, and most of content is not done yet!

That's a bit of a stretch. From what I can tell by all accounts the game is more than 2/3rds of the way done with the core things planned before they do the full release.

The only major things yet to be added are the 3rd character, daily challenges, and the infinity mode based on the things they have listed on the road map. Does that mean the game is done no of course not. Frankly if the game was done it wouldn't be worth complaining about because the chances of any major changes getting added are way lower post production than mid production.

But there are many people who comment that they find ascension less interesting than it could be. Some people like it as it is and for them I'm glad but personally I find it pretty dull and would like to see something else done with it particularly because it's something they're actively working on right now whereas the hypothetical infinity mode literally doesn't even have a name much less any information regarding what it will be like to play. Not to mention the idea behind an infinite mode literally doesn't help with what I'm looking for which is a more interesting risk reward mode/toggle or something.