RNG tweaks please.

[Sir Slush]

I know these kinds of threads are usually hated by the players who 'survived the game' already, but I have to give my feedback. This is Dark Souls-level difficulty. The reason such difficulty works for Dark Souls is because the game is based on skill, and your ability to win is always in your hands - not so here, where it's a mix of strategy and RNG. RNG is luck, and it really drains a guy's desire to continue when it feels not only like luck has spit on his glasses, but the RNG is actively cheating. "The game is rigged," so-to-speak.
I'm tired of seeing enemies pull their strongest, 50 damage multi-hit attacks and having no cards to defend with. Then for them to buff themselves the next turn, when I have no cards to attack with. I'm not asking that you make the game 'EZ mode,' but could you at least weight the RNG so it doesn't happen over and over? Maybe it's confirmation bias, but it seems like this one-two punch happens at least once on every elite - twice on most bosses.
Tweaking the RNG is nothing new, and it's almost always done in the player's favor specifically to avoid cases like this. Take Xcom 2 for example - that game changes stats by up to 40% behind the scenes, just so players don't end up getting steamrolled by a bad string of numbers. And "that's XCOM, baby!" is still a thing, even with the hidden checks in place.
What I'm trying to say is the game can still be hard without being frustrating. It's hard to control luck and hide it from the players, but it's worth the effort.

*I'm only posting this because the game is still in EA; no one expects it to be perfectly balanced and we're basically beta testers to tell you what we think works and what doesn't. I don't think the current RNG works.

[Affordable Care Act]

I'll post this here as well: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1334712/Humans-concept-randomness-hard-understand.html

TL;DR: Humans suck at evaluating RNG

[Affordable Care Act]

I wouldn't be opposed to an easy mode though, if the developers are so inclined. But I think an easier "fix" would be to give players on easy +1 card draw.

[milvax]

Escrito originalmente por Taki:

So when you are playing real life card games you ask for tweaks too? Man. RNG is a part of the game. Luck is luck. Everytime and everygame you have to draw a card, there is luck included. I'm pretty sure when you had good draws you were fine with it. Play the game and have fun, It is supposed to be hard and challenging. Peace

That makes zero sense. Physical card games that you play are already printed and not comparable to an Early Access digital card game. The point of Early Access/Beta releases is for you to play the game and provide feedback so the developer can tweak the game to make it better.

[gradualsmith]

It also makes no sense because real life card games are extremely prone to becoming very violent and disruptive precisely because it is relatively easy to cheat the cards by all kinds of system and plays. And, yes, the rules to card games do indeed get tweaked regularly, such as who cuts the deck when and when to shuffle deck and when to replace the deck and lots and lots of etc.

[gradualsmith]

Escrito originalmente por Affordable Care Act:

I'll post this here as well: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1334712/Humans-concept-randomness-hard-understand.html

TL;DR: Humans suck at evaluating RNG

People used to post that kind of thing regarding Civilisation 2.

For a long time people complained about the AI regularly building a wonder one turn before the player completed the said Wonder (only one person may complete a specific wonder). So they moaned and complained... and "the usual suspects" would just bleat on-and-on about luck of the game and why didn't you build this or that building to improve your chance of building it first, and why didn't you mine instead of irrigating that one square, post your game, & etc... etc... etc....

It tuned out, once the code had been fully released, that the game was indeed 'cheating' and the AI would be 'given' wonders in order to help balance the 'experience'. In civilisation 3 they amended the game so that you would never lose a wonder to the AI when you only had 1 turn left to complete it.

Good good.

[Bzzatah]

His win rate doesn't matter because it doesn't break down into what ascensions he's doing, if any at all.

[Duckie]

The OP's suggestion is that the game should not be purely random (or have a mode that's not purely random). The game could fudge numbers in your favor sometimes. Let me put a few ideas out around this:

1. Firstly, it's worth noting that the game (as far as I know) doesn't fudge in either direction - it neither goes out of its way to hurt or harm you based on how you're currently doing. Devs could tell me if I'm wrong :P

2. If there is any fudging, it might just be around some minor things like not offering you The Specimen if you have no poison in your deck. Has anyone ever been offered it in this situation? There is also the rule (given explicitly as a tip) that enemies don't do the same thing three turns in a row.

3. The game is currently not too hard. It takes thought and practice. I don't consider myself one of the best players, I was only winning 10-20% of my games at first, but I have won around 50% of my last 40 games.

4. The game is fun even when you lose. You don't have to think of the practice as being something unfun that you do so you can enjoy it later. Sometimes you will run a bad deck on purpose just to test out new strategies.

5. If the game did fudge the numbers, the players would find out, and they would exploit it.

6. It would also make players unhappy because it's not really done for this genre of game. Players are used to true randomness from playing physical card games. It's not the same thing as xcom.

7. It's also a roguelike, another genre that doesn't fudge. People play this sort of game to expect to have to roll with the punches, do their best to anticipate the possible good and bad that could come their way.

8. Let's say that the devs did decide, despite the fact that the game is currently not too hard, to add an easy mode. Would fudging be the best way to make the game easier? Why not keep it pure random and just change the numbers, e.g. the amount of damage enemies do per attack?

9. The more times you roll a die, the more likely the total centres around the average (i.e. RNG tends to even itself out after a while). So if the enemies did less damage per attack, you would very rarely get the situation that kills you out of nowhere - it's unlikely that you draw no blocks for two turns in a row, for example.

10. That would mean that a person going from easy to normal knows what to expect - it'd be the exact same game, just with bigger numbers. Otherwise, you'd just get the same complaints by people who previously played on easy and are now trying normal for the first time.

TLDR don't add fudging to the game

[Rett]

Escrito originalmente por Bzzatah:

His win rate doesn't matter because it doesn't break down into what ascensions he's doing, if any at all.

Because i'm a self centered narcissicist, i'm going to assume you're talking about me.

I don't play Ascension. No one complaining about the RNG or Difficulty of the game is generally talking about Ascension. They're talking about normal runs. So what does Ascension have to do with anything?

[Duckie]

Some people like RNG because it makes losses less frustrating. You know that if you're struggling with the game, there's still a chance that you just get handed a Kunai on the first question mark square of your next run and go on to crush the game. You know that if your deck is prone to being rushed down, there's a chance that the enemies don't attack on their first few turns and you can still win.

If you don't like pure RNG, why are you playing a game that combines the two genres that are most about pure RNG? It's like that meme of the guy sticking the stick in the spokes of his own bicycle and then blaming the devs.

Also, if there was a fudging mechanic that saved you from getting hit hard, sometimes it would make it even less fun to lose. Like, there would be times when it was just genuine bad luck and being saved from it let you go on to win the run. But far more often, that mechanic would only kick in when you already had a bad deck. It'd just stop you from knowing that your deck was bad until you lost by attrition. It'd just drag out a loss that was already guaranteed.

[mjkitsch]

not everyone is good at poker at first, but they are surely welcome to sit at the table.

[ZapDoggo]

Escrito originalmente por Flavorable:

Escrito originalmente por xephosarkeyus:

Yeah trust me, I've tried making a discussion by why the 'survivors' don't want easy mode (when, again, it doesn't effect them.)

I've also seen someone say that It's just people who want to ruin the game for those who just want to have fun without massive frustration/too much challenge.

And he's back with no reply except trying to make another thread be about himself instead of OP.

Stop harassing me. :/

[Sir Slush]

I'm seeing two differing opinions here.
Veterans: "RNG is part of the game, part of the fun."
Newcomers: "You forgot "...and frustrating as (censored.)""

I'm not suggesting that the devs make the RNG a non-issue. I'm saying its frustrating enough to enough people that it deserves a second look. If there's a way we can keep it challenging for veterans without being frustrating for newcomers, it'd be better for everyone and help keep the community from becoming toxic.

[ZapDoggo]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Slush:

I'm seeing two differing opinions here.
Veterans: "RNG is part of the game, part of the fun."
Newcomers: "You forgot "...and frustrating as (censored.)""

I'm not suggesting that the devs make the RNG a non-issue. I'm saying its frustrating enough to enough people that it deserves a second look. If there's a way we can keep it challenging for veterans without being frustrating for newcomers, it'd be better for everyone and help keep the community from becoming toxic.

I'm on your side for this, but I'm not sure about many others. Sorry. =/

[Duckie]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Slush:

I'm seeing two differing opinions here.
Veterans: "RNG is part of the game, part of the fun."
Newcomers: "You forgot "...and frustrating as (censored.)""

I'm not suggesting that the devs make the RNG a non-issue. I'm saying its frustrating enough to enough people that it deserves a second look. If there's a way we can keep it challenging for veterans without being frustrating for newcomers, it'd be better for everyone and help keep the community from becoming toxic.

But it's not frustrating for most newcomers. The game's easiness is part of the reason it has sold so well, making the top ten of the steam charts.

Why don't you try avoiding all elites on your next run? Then the overwhelming attack scenario is less likely to happen.

[Sinsling]

Escrito originalmente por Sir Slush:

I'm seeing two differing opinions here.
Veterans: "RNG is part of the game, part of the fun."
Newcomers: "You forgot "...and frustrating as (censored.)""

I'm not suggesting that the devs make the RNG a non-issue. I'm saying its frustrating enough to enough people that it deserves a second look. If there's a way we can keep it challenging for veterans without being frustrating for newcomers, it'd be better for everyone and help keep the community from becoming toxic.

I think splitting it would make it worse. Most of the statements I see are along the lines of "I've lost 9/10 runs, it is rng", when evidence shows that that number should be 3/10 or lower once someone learns the game. Ascension, being the hard mode, would naturally be more difficult to achieve this in.

I think a great example of what making a game easier does to a fan base is what happened to the souls crowd split. Dark souls 2 fed the public an easier entro title because people complained that demon/dark souls was too hard. When dark souls 3 gave some of that difficulty back to the core audience because they complained, the people who enjoyed 2 started complaining that it was too hard again (I am aware of the development differences of the titles).

Tldr; the loudest crowd is always the unhappy one. The happy players now have to be vocal about shooting down "easy" modes because they've learned what happens to the games they love if they don't.