Philo stone death trap

[TLP]

If you pick Philosopher's stone at the first boss, you will die to the birds in the next act. They all have 3x5 damage, and will just kill you off in 1-2 rounds. And you always seem to get them too. No skipping.

[Flavorable]

"And you always seem to get them too."

That's confirmation bias. ;)

[crate]

I've actually raised my evaluation of philostone recently. I'm usually more scared of the Snake Plant with extra strength than the birds (there are lots of ways to deal with the birds with 4 energy). But even against Snake Plant I'd rather be facing 9x3 with 4 energy than 7x3 with 3 energy.

[Arti_Sel]

Birds seems to come early. I usually pass on the philo stone for second act unless I have like whirlwind or something else to put those birds down fast.

[MHC]

I've actually never taken that relic for this exact reason. More comfortable skipping non-boss chests and losing out on potions and even, god help me, ectoplasm and no gold, than giving my opponents more strength. Juggling enough block already seems like a losing proposition as it is.

[iangoth]

The birds aren't *that* bad with Philosopher's Stone, provided your deck isn't excessively defensive. It's still well worth taking, since there's only a handful of encounters that become more difficult, rather than clearly easier thanks to the extra energy.

[Drecon]

I'm always careful picking up the stone. Some decks can handle the extra str with ease, others will struggle a lot against stronger enemies. I've gambled a bit with it too, with varying results.

[.//slayer]

I have no idea why people are so afraid of the damn birds. Unless you play on higher ascension, you're going to face the birds with full HP, so taking an attack or two won't matter. What's more, you can disable the most damaging birds by stacking 3 attacks in a row - incredibly easy to do with the spare energy that Philosopher's Stone gives.

The Stone is my favourite +energy relic because +2 attack doesn't matter as long as you play carefully. There aren't enough enemies in the game that strike you with low-damage multiple-hit attacks anyway. Every other relic's disadvantage is much more hurtful, because you're forced to deal with curses or lose access to entire game mechanics like gold and potions. Beating the game without potions is arguably much harder than fighting slightly stronger enemies.

[TLP]

Well, the times I have picked the stone I am faced with 3 birds with 3x5 = 45 damage per round. Even if I can get 3 attacks in on 1 of them, I still take 30 damage. The bird fight is designed to escalate fast, with the stone it has already escalated equivalent to something like turn 6.

[gradualsmith]

Originally posted by .//slayer:

I have no idea why people are so afraid of the damn birds. Unless you play on higher ascension, you're going to face the birds with full HP, so taking an attack or two won't matter. What's more, you can disable the most damaging birds by stacking 3 attacks in a row - incredibly easy to do with the spare energy that Philosopher's Stone gives.

The Stone is my favourite +energy relic because +2 attack doesn't matter as long as you play carefully. There aren't enough enemies in the game that strike you with low-damage multiple-hit attacks anyway. Every other relic's disadvantage is much more hurtful, because you're forced to deal with curses or lose access to entire game mechanics like gold and potions. Beating the game without potions is arguably much harder than fighting slightly stronger enemies.

If your hand is good enough to cope with giving everyone +2 free strength, why isn't it good enough to cope without potions?

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by gradualsmith:

Originally posted by .//slayer:

I have no idea why people are so afraid of the damn birds. Unless you play on higher ascension, you're going to face the birds with full HP, so taking an attack or two won't matter. What's more, you can disable the most damaging birds by stacking 3 attacks in a row - incredibly easy to do with the spare energy that Philosopher's Stone gives.

The Stone is my favourite +energy relic because +2 attack doesn't matter as long as you play carefully. There aren't enough enemies in the game that strike you with low-damage multiple-hit attacks anyway. Every other relic's disadvantage is much more hurtful, because you're forced to deal with curses or lose access to entire game mechanics like gold and potions. Beating the game without potions is arguably much harder than fighting slightly stronger enemies.

If your hand is good enough to cope with giving everyone +2 free strength, why isn't it good enough to cope without potions?

Probably cause he plays aggro, diverting all energy and pots to kill before damage hits him.

[itssirtou]

P Stone is honestly my least favorite energy relic. Even Runic Dome is better if its your second energy relic. The extra damage you take is usually at least one camp you can't use to improve.

[burningmime]

Originally posted by itssirtou:

P Stone is honestly my least favorite energy relic. Even Runic Dome is better if its your second energy relic. The extra damage you take is usually at least one camp you can't use to improve.

Runic Dome really depends on your deck (as well as memorizing enemy patterns I guess). Some decks, particularly poison and combo decks kind of "play themselves" and knowing what the enemy is going to do isn't going to change your plays very much. Others require careful blocking and putting in attacks when able, and Runic Dome can kill those decks.

IMO, Cursed Key is the "best" energy relic. Its downside barely matters. If you don't want a curse, then skip 2-3 chests of random relics. Otherwise, since you can remove curses at shops, it usually means 1-3 extra strike/defend in your final deck.

[gradualsmith]

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by gradualsmith:

If your hand is good enough to cope with giving everyone +2 free strength, why isn't it good enough to cope without potions?

Probably cause he plays aggro, diverting all energy and pots to kill before damage hits him.

I honestly can't believe anyone plays with pots in-mind as a key part of their strategy. Sure, they can help tip the balance of a fight, and it's usually wise to try and save some for the end boss, but they cost too much to buy consistently and shops are scarce anyway, and pots are likely way down the priority list, and then if you do get in a fight when you need them, they're gone so quickly and you'll have no idea when the next one will arrive. Sometimes I can go an entire map level without a single potion drop... but knowing for sure you're going to give The Book of Stabbing or the Snake Plant a free +2 strength?

Yeah, I'd agree with you, the best one is the curses one. My problem is that I always forget and click on the chests by natural instinct, lol. Gold is crucial for card removal, which just leaves the potion one as my usual pick [though that did prevent me defeating the time lord in my last game as he had only 46 health left when he killed me, I'd have won with just one Strength Potion at the start].

[.//slayer]

Originally posted by gradualsmith:

Originally posted by .//slayer:

I have no idea why people are so afraid of the damn birds. Unless you play on higher ascension, you're going to face the birds with full HP, so taking an attack or two won't matter. What's more, you can disable the most damaging birds by stacking 3 attacks in a row - incredibly easy to do with the spare energy that Philosopher's Stone gives.

The Stone is my favourite +energy relic because +2 attack doesn't matter as long as you play carefully. There aren't enough enemies in the game that strike you with low-damage multiple-hit attacks anyway. Every other relic's disadvantage is much more hurtful, because you're forced to deal with curses or lose access to entire game mechanics like gold and potions. Beating the game without potions is arguably much harder than fighting slightly stronger enemies.

If your hand is good enough to cope with giving everyone +2 free strength, why isn't it good enough to cope without potions?

Never said it isn't. But potions are *very* helpful to save a lot of HP on elites. I feel uncomfortable playing without them.

Besides, Arti_Sel is right - I almost exclusively play aggro.

@gradualsmith, correction - not a key part of strategy, just an extremely useful tool to get through the most dangerous encounters of the 1st and 2nd floors. And I only made an example there - given the choice between Sozu and Stone, I'd go for a stone.

[burningmime]

Originally posted by gradualsmith:

I honestly can't believe anyone plays with pots in-mind as a key part of their strategy. Sure, they can help tip the balance of a fight, and it's usually wise to try and save some for the end boss, but they cost too much to buy consistently and shops are scarce anyway, and pots are likely way down the priority list, and then if you do get in a fight when you need them, they're gone so quickly and you'll have no idea when the next one will arrive. Sometimes I can go an entire map level without a single potion drop... but knowing for sure you're going to give The Book of Stabbing or the Snake Plant a free +2 strength?

Silent has the White Elephant relic and the Alchemize card (when upgraded is 0 and it exhausts itself so not a huge waste of a deck slot). So it's not impossible to be getting 2 free potions per fight.