Can we have underhanded/sneaky strike back?

[softeach]

Hey i am writing this in general disscusion, because i would like to hear what others think.

Sneaky strike used to be if you discard it deals 8 dmg. And now its sh*t. I mean if you have discarded a card it gives you 2 mana deals 8 dmg for a cost of 2 mana. (i know you can use traps and stuff and gain mana etc. but its not really fun for me...)

Now listen why I think its sh*t.



It ruined my favourite build ever. Discard deck. This style of play is one of most fun ones I came across, and i had pretty much tried builds with any and all cards. You got bunch of gambits, concentrates, card draw and sneaky strikes and a pen nib relic and its freelo.


Ahh you just got pen nib to 9th attack, and then you never had to attack again. You were dealing double dmg with discards all the time. Ahhhhhhh those were the times.


This build was really fun and not hard to build since you dont really need that much rare cards.



Can we please get it back? We can have both cards too i guess.

I am really not sure why it got removed? Was it to good? Was it too fun, so people didnt try other builds? Maybe I am missing something obvious here.

Anyway sorry for rant. Please comment what do you think.

Have a nice day!

PS if people agree maybe we should write it to suggestions. I dont want to ruin it for you guys if you disagree.


EDIT Also reflex is a bit more useless now, because you have less cards to build discard deck around. If you want to play discard deck now you pretty much have to have bandages and/or tingsha,

[spencerws88]

...But it sounds like that's an exploit that was fixed by the current sneaky strike. The current one also has some potential with cards that lower its cost.

[Sinsling]

To my understanding it was changed because it was originally a deadish card anyways. Now it has slightly less discard synergy, more synergy with some other things, but costs 2 up front. Imo, it just got worse, and I would rather spend time setting up a permanent loop using wraith form for damage than use this.

I would like a change that makes it more useful, but it is hard to know where it should go. Perhaps cost 1 deal 8, if a card has been discarded gain 1. Upgrade provides 2 energy. Or even keep the current version but instead of damage up have the cost go down or energy gained up.

Edit: didn't even think of that Spencer, good point on the exploit fix.

[Shovel Priest]

I already created a thread in Suggestions about this card (before the name change, so it still refers to "Underhanded Strike").

My main problem with it is that it's become less of an attack and more of a card you can game to become an energy generator.

Not sure what exploit you're talking about. Considering what the Silent is capable of, anything you could exploit with Underhanded Strike is pretty tame.

[Sinsling]

引用自 Shovel Priest：

I already created a thread in Suggestions about this card (before the name change, so it still refers to "Underhanded Strike").

My main problem with it is that it's become less of an attack and more of a card you can game to become an energy generator.

Not sure what exploit you're talking about. Considering what the Silent is capable of, anything you could exploit with Underhanded Strike is pretty tame.

Pen nib for the old version to have it constantly do double damage.

[FlameHricane]

Underhanded was garbage. Sneaky is slightly less garbage. It doesn't belong in discard decks in the first place. The Pen Nib strategy you mentioned is also so situational that it really shouldn't be considered. You act like it was the backbone of discard decks.. in which it wasn't.

[Player Won]

I feel like a fine first step to making the card playable again is, instead of giving 2 energy if you've discarded this turn, is have it cost 0 if you've discarded this turn. That way you can play it after, say, Backflip and Acrobatics (assuming 3 energy).

[Tray]

引用自 spencerws88：

...But it sounds like that's an exploit that was fixed by the current sneaky strike. The current one also has some potential with cards that lower its cost.

How in gods name did that even come close to an exploit? Unless I'm reading wrong and am missing the pen nibs double damage didn't wear off?

On topic, the old card was garbage, and the new one also is, probably worse.

[ZappyDoggo]

引用自 Tray：

引用自 spencerws88：

...But it sounds like that's an exploit that was fixed by the current sneaky strike. The current one also has some potential with cards that lower its cost.

How in gods name did that even come close to an exploit? Unless I'm reading wrong and am missing the pen nibs double damage didn't wear off?

On topic, the old card was garbage, and the new one also is, probably worse.

Well would you rather have garbage, or something worse if you had to pick the old and the new version of the card?

[Tray]

引用自 xephosarkeyus：

引用自 Tray：

How in gods name did that even come close to an exploit? Unless I'm reading wrong and am missing the pen nibs double damage didn't wear off?

On topic, the old card was garbage, and the new one also is, probably worse.

Well would you rather have garbage, or something worse if you had to pick the old and the new version of the card?

The last version of the card was better, but really wasn't worth taking due to it being very low on the damage side of things. It pretty much was always was better to use any other damage card in it's place even if it wasn't free.

So I'd say the last version of the card would be ideal with a bit of a bump in damage to bring it up to par.

[ZappyDoggo]

引用自 Tray：

引用自 xephosarkeyus：

Well would you rather have garbage, or something worse if you had to pick the old and the new version of the card?

The last version of the card was better, but really wasn't worth taking due to it being very low on the damage side of things. It pretty much was always was better to use any other damage card in it's place even if it wasn't free.

So I'd say the last version of the card would be ideal with a bit of a bump in damage to bring it up to par.

Well, I never really played Silent often, so I don't know the card much. Although I can tell by all the comments about it, It sounds kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥... er.

Also, by 'bump' in damage, I'm assuming you're thinking of 2 or 3 extra damage.

[Tray]

引用自 xephosarkeyus：

引用自 Tray：

The last version of the card was better, but really wasn't worth taking due to it being very low on the damage side of things. It pretty much was always was better to use any other damage card in it's place even if it wasn't free.

So I'd say the last version of the card would be ideal with a bit of a bump in damage to bring it up to par.

Well, I never really played Silent often, so I don't know the card much. Although I can tell by all the comments about it, It sounds kinda ♥♥♥♥♥♥... er.

Also, by 'bump' in damage, I'm assuming you're thinking of 2 or 3 extra damage.

Off the top of my head I'd probably make it an uncommon that does around 12/25(Upgraded) damage.

[Sinsling]

引用自 Tray：

引用自 spencerws88：

...But it sounds like that's an exploit that was fixed by the current sneaky strike. The current one also has some potential with cards that lower its cost.

How in gods name did that even come close to an exploit? Unless I'm reading wrong and am missing the pen nibs double damage didn't wear off?

On topic, the old card was garbage, and the new one also is, probably worse.

Yes, he implied the double damage was permanent for the discard version as long as you never actually "played" the 10th attack.

[Tray]

引用自 Sinsling：

引用自 Tray：

How in gods name did that even come close to an exploit? Unless I'm reading wrong and am missing the pen nibs double damage didn't wear off?

On topic, the old card was garbage, and the new one also is, probably worse.

Yes, he implied the double damage was permanent for the discard version as long as you never actually "played" the 10th attack.

Ahh never encountered that then. If that was really the reason for the change I think the better option would be changing the card to a skill or just fixing the pen nib itself. Even so though, getting to that point is kind of like completing your infinite cycle or getting your dread branch+corruption comob. You just kind of deserve the benefit at that point.

[softeach]

Wow. OP here. I read the comments and I see a lot of hate for both versions of the card.

I really am not sure why the hate for previous Sneaky strike. I mean, how do you play discard decks now? Do you think its better now?

I am maybe exaggerating, but I would feel similar, if they removed Corruption (cost 3: skills cost 0 exhaust skill when played) or Limit Break(double strength) for ironclad. Sure this cards are situational and I think similarly people would responding now.



NEXT 2 PARAGRAPHS ARE A WORK OF FICTION. ANY RESEMBLANCES TO ACTUAL PERSONS, LIVING OR DEAD, OR ACTUAL EVENTS IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL.

"Oh Limit Break, you say as it its core of the build. If you have 0 strength it does nothing. Other strength generators are core, we dont need limit break, its trash."

or to the guy badmouthing my Pen Nib:

"Corruption is trash. Using it with Dead Branch is exploit. Also its not really needed for the build. You just need exhaust cards..."



Now, it could be me, or people just play 1 strength 2 block 3 shiv 4 poison decks. There are more fun decks out there. Try them.

I would also feel upset if exhaust decks were ruined. Or if they implemented that you cant go through your deck more then once in a turn, saying its an exploit.

PS something else I think a lot of people are missing. Art of War (you get +1 mana per turn if you dont attack) relic was also amazing here. Its really bad relic in most cases. But here it shined. You never officially attacked. You would just discard and defend. It was beautiful.

Again. HOW DO YOU PLAY DISCARD DECKS NOW? Do you think its better now?

Also sorry for any and all mistakes. I am not a native speaker.

Have a nice day.

EDIT: Imagine with Pen Nib. It dealt 16/24 dmg every time you discarded it. Do you still think card is bad, even if it deals so much damage? Yes discarding doesnt count as playing attack. But since its attack card, it gets doubled damage. Totally legit way of playing.

EDIT2: Capitalisation of card names.

[iangoth]

Underhanded Strike was changed because you need a strong reward to take on an unplayable card, given the disadvantage of drawing it without an enabler, and a small amount of damage isn't that. Tactician and Reflex have infinite combo potential, which justifies their drawback, but if you have an infinite combo, you don't need Underhanded Strike or any particular attack to win.

As to your particular relic synergies, those are clever and all, but the chances of pulling off those builds in any given run are extremely low (and they don't sound incredibly powerful, if you do, given the whole "never play an attack" component). It's worth breaking a cool combo that rarely happens if it makes the key card more playable on average.