Should I Play Heathstone?

[Compliant]

Weird question to ask here, right? Basically, Slay the Spire got me into card/deck games, leading me to enjoy stuff like Monster Slayers. Hearthstone seems like the mackdaddy of deck building games. Should I play hearthstone or do you have other suggestions for me since I liked StS and MS?

[Xiarn]

Hearthstone isn't really much of a deckbuilder. Arena is the "deckbuilder" mode in that it's a semi-random draft, and you need to pay in game currency to enter it. It's also PvP only and once you've got your deck drafted that's it, you just try to win 12 games without losing 3.

For PvE you can check out the free 2(3?) dungeon modes that are in currently, where you grab a "bucket" of themed/archtyped cards after every fight, and you get a couple passive abilities to choose from as you climb. They're fun for a bit, IMO, but the insane amount of variance via RNG effects in the Kobolds dungeon, especially in some of the final bosses, turned me away from it.

Basically, it's worth it to download for free for a few hours of fun, but I wouldn't expect too much staying power from the Dungeons in Hearthstone.

[Compliant]

Originally posted by Xiarn:

Hearthstone isn't really much of a deckbuilder. Arena is the "deckbuilder" mode in that it's a semi-random draft, and you need to pay in game currency to enter it. It's also PvP only and once you've got your deck that's it, you just try to win 12 games without losing 3.

For PvE you can check out the free 2(3?) dungeon modes that are in currently, where you grab a "bucket" of themed/archtyped cards after every fight, and you get a couple passive abilities to choose from as you climb. They're fun for a bit, IMO, but the insane amount of variance via RNG effects in the Kobolds dungeon, especially in some of the final bosses, turned me away from it.

Basically, it's worth it to download for free for a few hours of fun, but I wouldn't expect too much staying power from the Dungeons in Hearthstone.

Thank you for the detailed response. Very useful. Any other games you'd recommend since you like Slay the Spire? I also like roguelikes in general and have loved Dead Cells and Wizard of Legend, highly recommend them.

[Benkyo]

Dominion is my favourite deckbuilder, but the online implementations are spotty and it is entirely unlike roguelikes and has no theme to speak of.

Star Realms is a popular sci-fi themed deckbuilder that I can recommend, although it isn't quite my cup of tea.

Brogue is the last roguelike I really enjoyed.

I suppose I should ask if you are most interested in multiplayer deckbuilders, or solo games that feel like roguelikes and involve deckbuilding, or solo games that feel like roguelikes and simply involve cards, or whatever. That would help tailor recommendations. When I hear "deckbuilder" I mostly think of multiplayer card games that have online implementations, and specifically involve building a deck during play, not designing a deck before you start. Slay the Spire is a rare example of a solo deckbuilder that doesn't suck. Hearthstone is a multiplayer card game that is not a deckbuilder, but has some play variants that involve deckbuilding (as described in the previous response).

[..]

From what I remember ~8 months ago, HS allows up to 90s for each player's turn, and for games that can go on for 20+ turns, it'll take a while just to for you to finish a game(and feels worse when you lose it). If you think you'll like it, just check some YT vids. Brian Kibler, Trump(HS player, not the president one), Kripparian, Firebat, Kolento, Thijs, and Amaz are some of the YT HS channels I remember off the top that you can look at. They're usually edited so there's little downtime. It'll prbly be hard starting something like HS w/o $$ to spend on packs or serious dedication and research. Just something to keep in mind.

Don't play too many card games myself; I only remember MtG and a couple others whose names I've forgotten. I know of a few other roguelikes, but haven't played them myself so I wouldn't be able to say whether they're good or not. Still, if you like Wizard of Legend combat you could prbly try something like CrossCode, although it isn't a roguelike(more of an adventure feel like zelda games).

[ejg_dnd]

I personally really liked the single player mode for hearthstone, and it is probably a more casual version of this game with a more mtg battlefield style of play. Basically it is like this game except:
1. It uses the hearthstone engine.
2. All of the in between events/treasures are simplified.
Its completely free if you just want to do this mode, fun to try out and I would recommend it. I enjoyed it but there are definitely some things that can rub people the wrong way.
Also you can do arena free for 1 time if you want to try the draft experience.

Also I remember playing brogue back when it was mac only. Interesting but I don't think

Other roguelikes you might enjoy that Ive had fun with (however these are not deck builders):
FTL - Sort of like this game, except instead of deck building, you are doing spaceship combat, switching power between weapons/shields. If you are into space opera like Star Trek you might enjoy this game.
Into the Breach - Sort of like this game, except instead of deck building, you are equipping mechs and doing tactical movement/pushing/damage abilities with mechs. Made by the same company that made FTL.
Tales of Maj'Eyal - If you like playing characters with loads of abilities, this is the game for you. Spent loads of time on this rogue like. About 20-30 unlock able classes, depending on if you want to pay for DLC. Base game is free to play unless you want it on steam. Downside is that complete runs can take quite a bit of time, order to do things isn't communicated, and
HyperRogue - Theres a F2P version but you can buy a later version on steam with more goodies. Its weird because you are actually playing on a hyperbolic surface, which has several tactical implications. Basically a chess-like rogue like.
Cardinal Quest 2 - F2P on Kongregate, but there is also a paid steam version. Basically a simple dungeon crawler with 3 different quest lines and 6 classes.

Also you can look into Sentinels of the Multiverse as another deck card game. I have played the tabletop version but there is also a videogame version. Might have to buy it sometime.

[glass]

I wouldn't recommand hearthstone outside it's dungeon run. Even then, I think the target audience for the dungeon run are those who already play hearthstone.

Apart from dominion and star realms which was mentioned, there's also Ascension which has a digital version of it. And if you want to dive into the realms of physical board games, there are tons of cool deck builders.

Some games on steam you might want to check out.

Card Quest: Turn base roguelite with really good combat, even better than StS imo. Not exactly a deck builder tho. Each piece of equipment are tied to a few cards. And your deck is based on the combination of equipment you wear.

Dream Quest: The game that inspired monster slayers, and probably much of this genre. Made by the amazing Peter Whalen who works on hearthstone now.

One Deck Dungeon: Digitized board game. Roguelite. Uses dice. Can probably check out a how to play video on youtube to decide if you are interested.

Not on steam:

DiceyDungeons: Made by Terry Cavanagh of super hexagon/vvvvvv fame. He is actively working on this right now and will be his third commercial game. You can play it in it's current state on your browser, it's pretty fun.

[Compliant]

Wow, I've never received so many fantastic answers to a steam post. Thank you, guys. There's a lot in there that look interesting to me, I'll definitely give some of them a try and let you know what I think. I also used to enjoy Pox Nora if you're familiar with it which made me think I'd like hearthstone, but maybe that's also because I like the tactical rpgs aspect. The love of deckbuilders is new, but I'd say my main love is definitely roguelikes in general.

If you guys like Roguelikes + Dark Souls than you'd be seriously missing out if you didn't try Dead Cells. It's up there with Slay the Spire in legendarily good value early access games.

[tiamats4esgares]

Suggested games:

Guild of Dungeoneering: Roguelite because you have multiple characters and if one dies they're replaced (but you lose their buffs they've gained from beating dungeons). But a deck-building game, so fun.

Thea: the Awakening is very Roguelike, hardish game, easy to lose, and you could view the obtaining of more villagers of a deckbuilder of sorts, as they are cards used in battle.

Hearthstone's dungeons aren't so bad but very short and limited replay value.

The Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is deckbuilder of sorts. It's meant to be played as a CCG, with no "backsies" on cards you chose to not keep so only way to get more is to find them. However, the PC version allows a sideboard of 10 cards, but you can chose not to use it. The game is also meant to have permadeath and there's an option for that. You can have a team of anywhere from 1 to 6 people but if one dies the rest can go on without him/her.

[Zu]

HS is in an awkward spot where virtually all players resort to netdecking, so it's very rare to find actual newbies even at low ranks, meaning that you as a newbie yourself will feel inclined to netdeck instead of exploring and experimenting.

The situation has improved since they made changes to the ladder system, but even in arena where you draft a deck from random cards, tools that rate the cards for you make the decisions easier. Again, they made changes to that mode so the picks aren't clear-cut anymore, but still.

What's most appalling to me on a personal level is that old login bonuses aren't given to new players who already need a lot of effort (read: money because every set has 2 legendaries per class now) to catch up, unlike in Shadowverse (read: Weebverse TehePelo ) where they're throwing packs at you left and right to thank their players just for downloading the game.

As for the singleplayer content, it's free and fairly entertaining. It's one of the reasons that convinced me to check out this game, but holy P H U C C can the encounters near the end of the run feel rétarded and primarily driven by rng.
And that's not me being salty. That's one of the final bosses just casually winning on turn 2 because his "hero power" gave him 2 exact cards from a small pool of results that in combination allows him to fill the board with big dudes which is nigh on impossible to recover from, especially when he then randomly gets the card that refills his whole hand so he didn't even lose any resources in that aspect.

I see people complain about the rng in this game, but the rng in HS is really what brings out the worst in me because it's like "So I actually drafted a really strong deck with good passives, but oh, the a.i. got a good start and high rolled a random effect, so I guess my only way to recover is to draw my one overpowered card they designed specifically for this game mode except it's like a 1 in 25 to draw it right now so fûck me, right?"

Sorry for ranting. Just reminded me that the "StS experience in HS" is actually trash at times.

Originally posted by tiamats4esgares:

The Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Oh hey, somebody knows this game <3

Very fun with a lot of content and ways to control the dice so you feel more like you did something right when things go right or you miscalculated your chances when things go wrong.

If you own Tabletop Simulator, everything but the Skulls & Shackles expansion is available for free (but it involves setting up the scenarios each time because almost nothing is automated in TTS).

Should you grow fond of it though, it'll last you quite a while. I even had fun playing solo with multiple characters when M A B O I S had things to do.

[FroGG2]

You can take a look at Card Hunter here on Steam, Its a free Tabletop/Card game mix (some paid dlc / available ingame purchases ) with a realy good Solo/Coop Mode. In the game you get items for your character with differend Cards associated with them, so your equipment is giving you your deck of actions you can use. My Brother and I played for nearly 100h on the free Campaign

[ejg_dnd]

Originally posted by Zu:

HS is in an awkward spot where virtually all players resort to netdecking, so it's very rare to find actual newbies even at low ranks, meaning that you as a newbie yourself will feel inclined to netdeck instead of exploring and experimenting.

The situation has improved since they made changes to the ladder system, but even in arena where you draft a deck from random cards, tools that rate the cards for you make the decisions easier. Again, they made changes to that mode so the picks aren't clear-cut anymore, but still.

What's most appalling to me on a personal level is that old login bonuses aren't given to new players who already need a lot of effort (read: money because every set has 2 legendaries per class now) to catch up, unlike in Shadowverse (read: Weebverse TehePelo ) where they're throwing packs at you left and right to thank their players just for downloading the game.

Slightly off topic:

I think that the lack of experimentation is a consequence of how the in game economy works, with their decision to eliminate trading . If you look at physical TCGs like mtg, they have more experimentation because players can easily trade cards that they don't like. In Hearthstone, if you want to craft an "experimental" card, it takes a permanent investment of dust. Combine this with the sunk costs fallacy and most people will avoid experimentation to maximize the ROI for their cards. The exceptions are people who throw money at the cards such as popular streamers. TLDR The game mechanics discourage experimentation so don't be suprised that people don't experiment. I think Hearthstone would have much less netdecking if they addressed the sunk cost dynamic and needing wins to reward packs, but its tricky because there are other valid considerations with these dynamics.

Also if you are adventurous and don't mind playing experimental quick games, you can look at some of the 7drl entries linked here. http://roguetemple.com/7drl/2018/ More quickly developed games so the quality varies.

[Cyiel]

If you want deckbuilding game (game where you build your deck during the game) you need to look at boardgames more than videogames :

-Dominion
-Ascension
-Rune Age
-Clank!
-Time Masters
-Pathfinder

And so on.

[Fulgent]

I would reccommend Infinity War; its kind've almost dead at the moment. But it is still a great game in its own right and is atleast worth a few hours of gameplay if you can find anyone.

[ֆהტϣ]

I would definitely installing Hearthstone, but only for Dungeon Run and Monster hunt, which are the singleplayer adventures. They are a lot like Slay the Spire, and really fun. I would however NOT pay any money for the game, since the cycling of sets make any investment worthless after a year.

[Compliant]

Originally posted by glass:

I wouldn't recommand hearthstone outside it's dungeon run. Even then, I think the target audience for the dungeon run are those who already play hearthstone.

Apart from dominion and star realms which was mentioned, there's also Ascension which has a digital version of it. And if you want to dive into the realms of physical board games, there are tons of cool deck builders.

Some games on steam you might want to check out.

Card Quest: Turn base roguelite with really good combat, even better than StS imo. Not exactly a deck builder tho. Each piece of equipment are tied to a few cards. And your deck is based on the combination of equipment you wear.

Dream Quest: The game that inspired monster slayers, and probably much of this genre. Made by the amazing Peter Whalen who works on hearthstone now.

One Deck Dungeon: Digitized board game. Roguelite. Uses dice. Can probably check out a how to play video on youtube to decide if you are interested.

Not on steam:

DiceyDungeons: Made by Terry Cavanagh of super hexagon/vvvvvv fame. He is actively working on this right now and will be his third commercial game. You can play it in it's current state on your browser, it's pretty fun.

Wow Dream Quest....Monster Hunters is like a clone of it. Same friggen characters and enemies and mechanics.