Silent rare cards - first boss rewards

[Mehfisto]

Hi everyone I'm just about to work my way through ascension 15 with the Silent (just had my first couple of wins after millions try) and now i'm doing another run and here I am in the same good ol' dilemma.
I've just beaten the first boss and I don't like any of the card rewards.
Actually that's fairly common because I only like very few of Silent's rares.

After the first boss I always have a fairly simple deck. No game-breaking relics except molten egg and here I have to chose between Doppelganger, Alchemize and Bullet time.

Alchemize I usually like except you never know if you're getting a sozu. Bullet time I thought was awesome but in ascension 15 I find myself with solid draw engines and I usually don't want to lock myself out of drawing at the start of a turn and later on I won't have energy. Doppelganger same, I usually try to get a draw engine so I can play most card possibles so I'd have to set up some combos but that hardly comes by the end of act 1

Same goes for Storm of steel, wraith form, corpse explosion, burst and to a lesser extent phantasmal killer.

Am I doing something wrong or is it common to skip on rares sometimes? What do you guys think?

[Zu]

It's not uncommon at all, pun intended.

Out of all cards you mentioned, burst is reasonable if you already have a malaise, and doppelganger isn't a bad card to have if you're trying to draw towards something important like your only copy of footwork or noxious fumes, or setting up a finisher with well-laid plans.

Wraith form has more specific uses. It can save you a lot of health but you're kinda committing to fighting elites in act 2 to make the most of wraith form, so your damage needs to be adequate. And well, if nothing else, it hard-counters hyperbeam and execute which might otherwise end your run with an unfortunate draw.

Otherwise you have unload for fantastic damage if you're lacking that or need a bit more for hallway fights like triple cultists, glass knife which serves the same purpose, die die die as the definitive frontloaded aoe damage solution, adrenaline which is always excellent, after image which performs well in most runs, and a thousand cuts which helps in act 3 and allows you to keep dealing damage whilst defending.

There are arguments for envenom and phantasmal killer, but usually you pick a better card or skip after the first boss.

The rest tends to be too unreliable for ascension 15.

[Compliant]

I just wraith formed...wraith form and that event that gives you more wraith form...straight through ascension 15 lol.

[Romain672]

Bullet time increase on value if you think you can take Snecko eye. But it shouldn't be the main reason to take it.

Storm of steel, I like this card, but I often skip it. Seem better on 3 energy/high cost deck, but yeah it's very situationnal.

Wraith Form is one of the best card of Silent : it's never bad (except on ~2% of the deck perhaps if you have 2xFootwork?) : it's excellent for regular fight, because if you finish the fight in less than 5 turn after you draw it, it will be worth it (or at least, you have something to do if your hand are bad). And for boss fight who scale, you can use it at the end of the fight.

I will not defend Corpse explosion c:. Against the Champ, but that's all.

Phantasmal killer is excellent with Skewer (who are excellent early on when you have 1~4 card upgraded since you can use 3 'energy upgraded' with it, or with some specific combo (ice cream) or with anything that can let you keep your hand. It work with Finisher for the same reason : with a Nib Pen, you can deal a giant amount of damage.
Else... At least with 4 energy, the card will not be bad if you have a lot of attack or against some specific ennemies, you can know what happen this turn and next turn.

Alchemize : Yes sozu is a really big problem, 15% to get it, but you should reduce this % when you have another relic who are as good /better than Sozu. And alchemize can be gamebreaker with 'Ghost on a bottle'... I think it stay better than skipping.

And yes, it's common to skip rare. But you should try more these rare.

[burningmime]

Alchemize is really mediocre even if there was no Sozu, especially on ascension 11+ (with nerfed potions). It mighr have become a bit better now that a bunch of cool potions got added. But you're *randomly* getting one of these effects (on asc 11+):

If you had to pay energy for alchemize, a dex potion on asc 11+ is strictly worse than a footwork, a swift potion is worse than an acrobatics, a weak potion is worse than neutralize+, a fear potion is worse than trip, a posion potion is worse than deadly poison, a liquid bronze is worse than caltrops, an artifact is worse than panacea, a gambler's brew is worse than a calculated gamble, a fire potion is worse than a glass knife, an exploding potion is worse than a dagger spray, an energy potion is worse than an adrenaline....

And the kicker for all this is you have no control over what you get. Sure, you can use them later at a more convienient time, but you're sacrificing a deck slot an either an energy or a campfire for some sort of random potentially decent and potentially useless effect. There's a very small chance of hitting something nice (fruit juice, essence of steel, ghost in a jar, smoke bomb, regen), and a very good chance of wasting an energy on an minor effect you didn't need at the time you get it. IMO, it's just not worth a deck slot, especially if it's up against useful rares.

-------------

Doppleganger is pretty deece, especially with Malaise. A huge malaise can *be* your damage mitigation engine if you don't end up getting any Footwork or After Image (or even if you do). Even without malaise, it can help smooth out card RNG in case you get a hand with too many blocks or something. It's also kind of a mini-delayed-adrenaline if you upgrade it; you can drop it with 0 energy to make your next turn a bit better.

Wraith Form is another huge damage mitigation engine. If you can pump out enough attack damage, you can basically spend a few turns not blocking at all. Doesn't work in slow decks, but in general it can be a terrific card.

Burst I almost always take. At the worst, you're bursting a Defend, which is like drawing 2 defends, so not terrible. But at the best, you're bursting Blur for 2 turns of bluriness, or Adrenaline for all sorts of crazy shennanigans, or Malaise for "lol time eater" or Cloak & Dagger+ for more shivs than a prison riot, etc. It's rare that I build a deck where I don't have something worth bursting in most hands.

Bullet time *can* be good (Snecko and a few other things). Really depends on how your deck is constructed. It is card advantage in a way, since it lets you actually cast things you wouldn't. But you definitely have some good arguments against it.

After Image is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ incredible. At its worst, it's metalicize, which is fine. But in most SIlent decks, it's at least 5 block per turn, and can be much more with cards like Cloak & Dagger. IMO, it's roughly equal to Footwork in terms of card power, but can be upgraded to be innate which makes it all the better.

1000 cuts is good damage across a fight. It's slow but reliable. You can easily get 100 damage out of a thousand cuts upgraded over the course of the final boss battle.

Enevenom is weaker, it tends to add a few damage to every attack, but unless you have Shivs, Snecko Skull, or Noxious Fumes, that poison often just falls right off. I'd take it over nothing, but not be too happy about it.

Storm of Steel, Nightmare, Corpse Explosion, Tactician, Grand Finale are all very situational or just plain weak. Phantasmal Killer is high variance and a bit of a "feels bad" card. I might take it over nothing, but I'd not be too happy.

Adrenaline is obviously awesome. Glass Knife+ is the best 1-energy attack in the game. Unload is a decent attack that can do a lot more in the right deck. Die Die Die isn't very exciting, but it's not ever bad to have. Tools of the Trade provides some minor card advantage and a discard engine; it's OK.

tldr:
S-Tier: Thousand Cuts, After Image
A-Tier: Adrenaline, Glass Knife, Wraith Form
B-Tier: Die Die Die, Envenom, Burst
C-Tier: Unload, Tactician, Bullet Time, Tools of the Trade, Phantasmal Killer, Doppleganger
D-Tier: Storm of Steel, Nightmare, Grand Finale
F-Tier: Corpse Explosion, Alchemize

[Romain672]

Alchemize is excellent when you lack of scaling, so when you know you will need potion for a specific situation.
At least, if you doesn't like this card, you should take it (over skipping) on this situation, who happen frequently.

[burningmime]

JoINrbs on Burst:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaJVjBLrP2s

JoINrbs on Alchemize:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mORLs2M1hIo

Gennaro Gattuso on Alchemize:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmfhKewJiY8

[Romain672]

JolNrbs took a lot more Alchemize recently.

edit² : or it was just random and i saw him 2~3time taking it early on? Like he said on the video.
Interresting to saw again the video when you changed your opinion about that card (on specific situtation). Having weak for the right moment, like just after the Champ debuff himself, or when seeing his stats, instead of see you can die on regular fight, you can see how often you die on boss fight, and having extra potion for this fight is just excellent.


And btw, for Nightmare : https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/8mltba/spirelogs_tier_list/ . #5 best rare on these stats. Nightmare is excellent for bosses, again, when you lack of scaling.

[burningmime]

Originally posted by Romain672:

https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/8mltba/spirelogs_tier_list/ . #5 best rare on these stats. Nightmare is excellent for bosses, again, when you lack of scaling.

That's a fairly small sample size (only 185 Silent ac 15 runs with it, and there's a whole other deck there, so so many confounding factors), so I wouldn't read *too* much into it. Even when looking at high pick rate cards, you see a lot of variance. If you threw out those 185 runs and took the next 185 with it, you might find a fairly different win rate.

The "D-tier" there are really the cards that are very good in certain situations, which Nightmare falls into IMO. It's great if you have the right setup, and maybe a Blur to go with it (or even just Neutralize).

EDIT: thinking more about it, I might be underrating it because it can help with stuff like getting more Footwork or Thousand Cuts. I may have underrated it a lot because of how much setup it takes, but it's definitley got potential.

[Zu]

Originally posted by Romain672:

JolNrbs took a lot more Alchemize recently.

New pots came out. Gotta test if it makes a difference, right? Gotta love getting a curse from dat skill pot, but other times you get a ghost and then you're like "Oh, I guess I can tank champ now."