Consider adding carrying over something from previous run? Implementation suggestions.

[max.savenkov]

I'm ejnoying this game. It reminds me a lot of Desktop Dungeons, especially the alpha version. Though DD had more frequent unlocks: StS pace feels a bit slow with the rewards. But I don't know how that could be changed: DD made this happen by having many more heroes (with simplier, but unique mechanics), which is not a possible solution in this case.

What I'm missing the most, however, is the ability to power my next run from my previous run:

Past Alpha, Desktop Dungeons added the ability to take things you found in previous dungeon runs into the next one. It costs some resources, etc. etc,, but in general, I think it's a very good decision, because one problem I have currently with Slay the Spire is after a more successful run I just don't want to play another one: I know it probably won't be as successful, so I lose motivation.

Another problem is early combats in the first level: they are plainly boring, because you almost always have pretty much the same deck in every run, so the beginning of a new run feels a bit like a busywork.

To counter bot these problems, I suggest to add the ability to carry over _something_ from the previous run, so the success of the next run can be boosted by the previous one. The obvious things to carry over are cards and relics (but maybe also a percentage of gold). Carrying over a relic obviously gives the player too much of an advantage, because some relics are very powerful, and can make or break the run. Carrying 1-3 cards is less difficulty-breaking: even rare cards won't be of much use in the early combats before you acquire the neceaasry deck.

I see two possible implementations of this:

1) Just allow the player to carry over X cards (X=1-3).
2) Treat carry-over capability as a resource: for example, player can carry over 3 common cards, 2 uncommons or 1 rare. Or maybe even a relic - but depending on it's power or something.

I think it's preferable to allow the player to chose the cards to carry over, but even a random selection would be better than nothing.

As a side note, a relic that expands carry-over capacity could be added in both cases.

This would server not only to break up the monotony of early-level fighting, but also allow easier deck building, which is a bit too random for my liking presently, by providing the basis for your next deck from the previous one (but not necessarily the same: you might have found a new card that would allow for a different approach this time!).

[bc]

Все предложения так или иначе делают игру "легче", и спрашивается зачем. Сделать легче нормал мод? Так у людей по 50 вин стриков на нем имеется. Сделать легче возвышения? А какой тогда в них смысл.

Дай людям возможность делать билды, так каждый второй будет делать инфинит деки и думать какой он классный, побалуются недельку и дропнут, потому что, тут не настолько много карт\возможностей, что бы неделями придумывать разные деки. В том то и вся соль, что бы выйграть тем, что дают, и с определенного времени, выигрывать всяким говном намного веселей, чем отыгрывать очередной корапшн+дед бранч.

Монотонные ёрли файты? Дак это рогалик, они все так устроенны, благо монотонность пропадает после пары полученных карточек.

Originally posted by max.savenkov:

Carrying 1-3 cards is less difficulty-breaking: even rare cards won't be of much use in the early combats before you acquire the neceaasry deck.

Ага конешно, взял даш, футворк + фумесы, и выносишь вперед ногами 3-4 элитки на 1м акте, вообще никакого импакта да.

Originally posted by max.savenkov:

even rare cards won't be of much use in the early combats before you acquire the neceaasry deck.

Особенно такие карты как Bludgeon, Feed, Impevious, Offering, Adrenaline, Alchemize, After Image, Die Die Die, Glass Knife, Unload, без какой то комбы совсем не работают, ага.

Сравнение с ДД, вообще hz.

[kycol]

Carrry over that double tap+whirlwind and spin for the win, seems legit. Will sure make the game more interesting...

[Aeternalis the Abyssal Alchemist]

You mean like the Golden Weapons in Nuclear Throne?

[max.savenkov]

@bc @ kycol

I'm sure it can be balanced in some way to not make game significantly easier, but more interesting, at least for a little more casual player like myself. Starting from zero every time is a thing I dislike most about roguelikes, and to have something to carry over is always a boon. A lot of games do that (Rogue Legacy carried over upgrades, Sword of the Stars: The Pit carried over schematics for crafting), and I think it makes the game more interesting - even if easier.

I get it, compared to most here, I'm a casual player: I haven't yet beat the game once yet, and, according to my current experience, probably won't do it for some time still: for me, the game is really hard, but I play completely casually: I don't look up decks on-line, I just put together whatever I encounter during my runs, slowly learning interesting combinations (and frankly, I'm not a GOOD player: I haven't found any single _really_ powerful combo yet).

For me, carrying over cards from the previous run wouldn't make the game much easier (maybe a tiny bit, but certainly not enough to make it uninteresting). On the other hand, even if it did - I wouldn't care. I'm not in the game to compete with anyone or prove myself - I want to have fun, and lack of carry-over diminishes my fun, for the reasons I described in the original post. I'm would welcome other suggestions to fix the described problems, but I'm sure they ARE problems, if only for a subset of players like me.

One thing I learned from my own experience in making games is not to underestimate how badly people play your game, and how hard it is for them - compared to you, and your testers, who became adept at it.

@Abyssal Alchemist
> You mean like the Golden Weapons in Nuclear Throne?

I'm not familiar with that game, but from the description in the Wiki, it's something like what I propose, though a bit more limited: you only get to carry over the Golden Weapon if you find one (and you might not, depending on your run). Also, it seems like there is a requirement to "go through a level ending portal". In case of StS, this can be adapted, for example this way: you finish the first area - you pick a card, you finish the second area - you pick a second card, and those card carry over after the end of run (even if you were defeated). This wouldn't make the game easier from complete newbies, since they probably wouldn't beat the first boss (took me 3 runs before I could do it), but on the other hand, this might be for the best, because they don't yet know which cards they want to carry over anyway, so allowing carry-over after a victory over boss seems like a good idea to me.

[itssirtou]

Make a boss relic, select 1-3 cards from your last run as that class

[max.savenkov]

Hn, it's an interesting variant, too. Make it available after every boss - but you get to decide, carry over cards to next run - or take something useful in THIS run.

[Mystenigma]

I don't have much issue winning most of the time; two of my first three runs ever with the game were wins, both with The Silent. At this point my only difficulty is climbing the Ascension ranks... Even so, I think something like this is a great idea. Perhaps you can spend points from your previous run to select cards? You'd want to make the costs based on rarity, I think. Something like 100 for a common, 200 for an uncommon, 400 for rare? I feel like these costs would stop you from grabbing anything that'd insta-win the game, since you'd need to earn a whopping 800 points in a run just to grab two rare cards (which is all you really need for some deck builds). The average score I've been getting is 600+ on a winning run, though sometimes its in the 500s (and rarely 700+), and carrying one of each rarity after a win sounds pretty reasonable.

The best bit is, while you'd think it'd mean that if you're not having much luck getting wins, you won't be able to carry over much, but even just one uncommon or a couple commons would really help you extend runs; it'd let you gradually get further and further by letting you carry better cards, letting you get even further, getting higher scores, etc in a loop until you actually win. It's also encourage win streaks, which i feel is pretty fun, but quite hard to pull off most of the time without certain specific builds, but this would allw you to use the builds you like and find most fun more consistently.

[max.savenkov]

That's exactly what I'm talking about, yes. Point-buy is a great idea - I was looking for some resource that can be spent on this, but I didn't want to suggest introducing a new one, and I missed the points you get for unlocks in this context entirely.