Necronomicon & Fiend Fire vs Necronomicon & Whirlwind

[Big Mad Wolf]

So when I use Whirlwind and it triggers Necronomicon, it gets used twice the amount of energy used for the first use.

But if I use this Fiend Fire and Necronomicon triggers, the second use of Fiend Fire needs a second set of cards to get exhausted.

So one card affords its price twice the other card does not. I find that a bit of counterintuitive.

[Grrwaaa]

Dead branch and you're fine.

[Big Mad Wolf]

How could that be a solution? The chance to get Dead branch is pretty low, did not even get it once.

[Androgynous]

Originally posted by shustermds:

Dead branch and you're fine.

That's irrelevant because the issue is inconsistency. Both cards should do nothing on the second use; Fiend Fire because you have no cards in hand, Whirlwind because you have no energy, but that isn't the case.

[E942]

It makes a lot of sense. Whirlwinds cost X = mana you currently have. It gets copied with that cost.

Fiend Fire is cast and then gets rid of your cards. Then the second one procs... you have no cards in hand to exhaust. Thus, it does nothing.

[kerputnick]

fiend fire would be a better card if they reduced the dmg, made it cost 1 + end your turn, and made its dmg be x number of remaining cards w/o the exhausting.

[DuckAndCower]

Fiend Fire's ability has nothing to do with cost. Whirlwind's cost is X and its ability is dealing X damage. Fiend Fire's cost is 2, and it's ability is to exhaust your hand and deal damage accordingly. Necro only duplicates the second part.

[Androgynous]

Whirlwind's cost should be 0. The card text i.e. it's effect, not it's cost, is to spend all your energy.

[Big Mad Wolf]

It would be kind of a shame, if Whirlwind would stop working like it works now, though you could argue, that it is too strong how it works at the moment. Because you can pull off a 500+ damage turn with it.

[Arti_Sel]

Originally posted by Androgynous:

Whirlwind's cost should be 0. The card text i.e. it's effect, not it's cost, is to spend all your energy.

This is completely backwards. The game mechanics prove you wrong, the cost is x and x is what you pay. That's why the copies make the same amount of dmg as the original.

[Not a Bard]

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by Androgynous:

Whirlwind's cost should be 0. The card text i.e. it's effect, not it's cost, is to spend all your energy.

This is completely backwards. The game mechanics prove you wrong, the cost is x and x is what you pay. That's why the copies make the same amount of dmg as the original.

Yeah, but "cost x, x is what you pay" means the first use of whirlwind uses all your energy, so the second use should do no damage. Usually if you play whirlwind with no energy, then it causes no damage.

Necronomicon says: "The first Attack you play each turn with a cost of 2 or greater will be played twice". I agree with OP, the behavior is inconsistent. But I think it means Whirlwind should be changed.

[Androgynous]

Originally posted by Arti_Sel:

Originally posted by Androgynous:

Whirlwind's cost should be 0. The card text i.e. it's effect, not it's cost, is to spend all your energy.

This is completely backwards. The game mechanics prove you wrong, the cost is x and x is what you pay. That's why the copies make the same amount of dmg as the original.

Then reword the card text to state it's cost is equal to all your current mana. As it is currently, the card text says to spend all your mana. Therefore that would suggest spending all your mana is what the card does, not what the card costs, in the same way that Fiend Fire's card text is to exhaust your hand.

[Xiarn]

The behavior makes perfect sense. Copied cards maintain costs, whether they're played instantly or not. It draining your energy is what sets the cost, then the card's effect goes off of that.

I checked ingame for the exact text. It's "Deal 5 damage to ALL enemies X times." Nothing about the energy cost in the card text, so it's not an effect of the card. Seems consistent.

[Big Mad Wolf]

The cost of the card is X, where X is the amount of Energy, you have available when you used the card. So when the card gets duplicated it should be duplicated with a cost of X, but because you have no Energy left X would be in that case 0?

[Androgynous]

Originally posted by Xiarn:

The behavior makes perfect sense. Copied cards maintain costs, whether they're played instantly or not. It draining your energy is what sets the cost, then the card's effect goes off of that.

I checked ingame for the exact text. It's "Deal 5 damage to ALL enemies X times." Nothing about the energy cost in the card text, so it's not an effect of the card. Seems consistent.

Yes there's nothing about the energy cost in the card text which is what makes it inconsistent. Unless you're also saying strike's cost is 6 damage.

[Xiarn]

No, I'm saying that when you play an X card, the "cost" of the card is set, then the effect goes off of the current cost. If you have anything that duplicates the card and then plays it (Necronomicon, Blitz, Double Tap) it duplicates it with the cost already set.

So you play it for 4 mana. The card text basically reads "Deal 5 damage to all enemies 4 times". If it said "pay all your energy" IN the card text then I'd agree with you, but it doesn't, so it's consistent with how all other cards work with those effects.