Starting Bonus

[Monocle Gentlesir]

This needs to happen every run. Nothing sucks more than getting stuck in a rut and not getting a bonus at the start, making getting out of the rut even harder. This game is way too RNG based to hold back the bonus for not making it to the boss, since one bad elite or even normal encounter can make getting there impossible. Not to mention poor card offers can happen, bad RNG on map generating, etc.

[rav]

i think it doesnt matter if you have a starting bonus or not at all.

I mean removing 2 cards or getting a good relic is definetly nice but its totally not needed to win a run.

[Monocle Gentlesir]

But whats the point of making it harder, when the person is already obviously struggling? I havent had a bonus on the silent in 3 runs due mostly to crap card choices leaving me with strikes/blocks only for most turns... its just a bad design decision.

[Yorien]

Originally posted by CARROT GOLEM:

But whats the point of making it harder, when the person is already obviously struggling? I havent had a bonus on the silent in 3 runs due mostly to crap card choices leaving me with strikes/blocks only for most turns... its just a bad design decision.

I don't actually think it's "bad design decision". I think it's "we're in early access and things may change on every patch if we feel they're wrong"

And no, I don't really thing people is struggling by not getting the bonus. You can perfectly reach a boss even on your first run with the Ironclad, starting the game anew. Sure is difficult, sure is range based, but it's perfectly doable.

It's a card game, so there will ALWAYS be RNG involved. The fact that you may get a bonus doesn't mean you should get it every run.

Maybe it could be added as an option you may enable or disable according to preferences?

[Monocle Gentlesir]

Well, FTL doesn't take away from your next run if you lose, Isaac doesn't take away from your next run if you lose.... It's been long enough with enough patches to change this problem. Roguelikes are supposed to be new every run, not based on your last run, so the way this works doesn't fit in with the genre. Either you have it or you dont. Early levels in RLs are already difficult as it is, why make them harder that other runs arbitrarily?

[Just Eddy]

Originally posted by CARROT GOLEM:

This needs to happen every run. Nothing sucks more than getting stuck in a rut and not getting a bonus at the start, making getting out of the rut even harder. This game is way too RNG based to hold back the bonus for not making it to the boss, since one bad elite or even normal encounter can make getting there impossible. Not to mention poor card offers can happen, bad RNG on map generating, etc.

haha mimimimi i dont get instant bonus mimimi get lost kiddo

[Cachirulazo]

After some runs, I feel that it is a bit difficult to die before the first boss. Only the elite that applies a debuff after some turns makes things a bit difficult for me (mostly, in early silent runs) but even in that case, I am just low HP and if I want to survive I just have to avoid more elites in first floor... But 90% of the times a go to the second floor beating two elites.

I am not saying that the game is easy. I am just saying that i don't find difficult to reach the first boss, before the rng acts. I am one of the people that the game is 80% (or more) skill and it rewards how good you are building the deck (mostly based on relics). The first thing I thought after playing it was how well balanced was it with so many items. And how much your skill is important...

So, since I think that reaching the first boss is not complicated... I don't feel that the bonus should be always offered. If you die too often in the first floor, it means that you are making mistakes and I think that it is better if you solve them before moving to the next floor.

The main con of always offering the bonus? People would reset until you find what you are looking for.

That is common in games like BoI yes, but in that game you have to have skills firing and avoiding... While in StS I think that you have to have skills creating the deck. Adapting. Evolving.

[Pixel Peeper]

It's just so people don't scum the bonus until they get lucky.

You're not going to want to do that if you need to go through the entire tutorial level every time.

[Yggdrasil]

The bonus is only reaching the boss its not like u have to actually kill it. and if u think the game is hard good thats what its supposed to be

[Dino [NG]]

I agree, with the current implementation, getting a bad run remove a bonus from your next game too, making it sucks even more. I like taking risks on floor 1 too, and this mechanic dissuade from doing so, that's annoying.

I know the boss requirement is there to prevent start scumming, but I think the same thing could be easily achieved by disabling the bonus if the player starts 2 games in less than 5 minutes or something like that.

[goodolarchie™]

I really like what they've done with the starting bonus. I discovered the limitation when I took a rare card with Silent and it was garbage for a long time, so I thought well that sucks, don't want to waste a run and quit... only to find myself starting with nothing. And that's a good thing, because save scumming the boss relic on SIlent etc. until you get the right starting one goes against the "Decisions Matter" style.

So if it's too hard on struggling players, I'd propose:
+ letting the bonus reset on floor 10 or something... so you couldn't scum your way to a specific result, but you also don't have to git gud to take advantage.

+ changing the start to be a fixed/predictable bonus that allow for variety in starting strategy (i.e. not random)...

examples would be:
1 Str, 1 Dex, 1 Regen potion
150 gold
Upgrade 3 Strikes and 3 Defends
Remove 1 Strike and 1 Defend
Increase Max HP by 10
Omamori relic (negate 2 curses)

[Sofia]

Personally I think the bonus should automatically happen at the start of your next game if you: 1. didn't win (if you won, you don't need the bonus), 2. reached at least the 5th floor in your current run.

That should prevent scumming the bonus while making sure you get it often enough.

[Pixel Peeper]

Originally posted by Dri:

if you won, you don't need the bonus

It's not really about "needing".

The bonus allows for some well-needed variety for the boring tutorial part of the game, and it would be bad if you were punished for winning by having that precious little bit of variety taken away.

[Monocle Gentlesir]

Originally posted by Sp3cial3d:

Originally posted by CARROT GOLEM:

This needs to happen every run. Nothing sucks more than getting stuck in a rut and not getting a bonus at the start, making getting out of the rut even harder. This game is way too RNG based to hold back the bonus for not making it to the boss, since one bad elite or even normal encounter can make getting there impossible. Not to mention poor card offers can happen, bad RNG on map generating, etc.

haha mimimimi i dont get instant bonus mimimi get lost kiddo

Private profile, nothing but smart ass replies to people... obvious basement-dwelling neckbeard-wearing keyboard warrior is obvious

[kerputnick]

I think it's nice the way it is with no bonus until you reach the first boss. It provides a sense of accomplishment when you first play the game, and a little mystery for what the whale might give you if you do reach him. Also, once you get some experience, reaching the first boss is a gimme unless you seriously mess up. So, if you want to face all of the elites on the way to the first boss, and one of them kills you, you deserve to get punished.

[rav]

Originally posted by CARROT GOLEM:

But whats the point of making it harder, when the person is already obviously struggling?

I do agree with that, but i still think it doesnt matter if you have a start bonus or not to beat the game and if someone is struggling really hard to even reach the first boss its even less signifcant.