I Don't Seem to Get This Game

[wafflekitty]

I've tried reading guides, following recommendations on how to select cards, and can have really killer decks that are letting me survive Act 3 enemies with full health at the end of the fight. But then one enemy will just wreck my face like it's nothing. Reptomancer is a common culprit. I just had an Ironclad deck where I crushed that reaper elite and that giant stone head elite with still having full HP left after the fight. Then Reptomancer is like "nope, eff you, you die". I also had a deck earlier today where I Whirlwinded the act 3 crow boss for over 300 damage and killed his second form in one hit with it. Heart killed me on turn 3. It feels like no matter what I try, there's always just one enemy (usually Heart or Reptomancer) who just bend me over and have their way. It's infuriating and makes me feel like I simply don't grasp the game at all and should just give up. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or how to correct the error.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just super frustrated and feel like I should quit this game cuz it's never gonna "click" with me.

[wafflekitty]

Originally posted by faceplant712:

Originally posted by wafflekitty:

very poor way to design this game

What's the alternative, having the heart fight locked behind a certain ascension? Some people don't want to play ascension (ever) but would still like to see the "true ending." Plus, there are already enough complaints about difficulty without raising the skill floor even higher.

The devs designed it (and so many other things) this way to give people flexibility in how to play.
Let's not lose sight of whose choice it is to keep bouncing off the heart when several people have told you that there are better ways to improve.

I think you misunderstood me. In terms of progression, beating Heart feels like getting the true ending, while playing ascensions feels like post-game content. As such, Heart should be easier than ascensions. But they apparently chose to design it the other way around, which is goofy.

[DJDiceZ]

Do keep in mind that Ascension 0 Heart =/= Ascension 20 Heart.

[DuckSonata]

Originally posted by wafflekitty:

I think you misunderstood me. In terms of progression, beating Heart feels like getting the true ending, while playing ascensions feels like post-game content. As such, Heart should be easier than ascensions. But they apparently chose to design it the other way around, which is goofy.

Ok, maybe I did misunderstand you. But there's a problem with what you said here, too.

Viewed purely as difficulty modifiers for your run, the heart is actually less of a challenge than the majority of ascension levels (just not the first few levels). Your perception in this matter is being clouded by the exaggerations in this thread, and the simple fact that you haven't done ascension yet to make the comparison for yourself.

What feels like "post-game content" is a matter of opinion, also. I happen to agree with your assessment (though only because I know that ascension is more difficult), but I could just as easily argue that the heart, as the "true ending," should come after ascension as the culmination of your entire game experience, and should therefore be super difficult. There are people who save the heart battle until they've finished ascension. And, once again, there are people who never touch ascension but would still like the final battle to be a challenge.

[khiro]

Originally posted by wafflekitty:

Originally posted by chiro:

The heart is not meant to be a fair fight. I'd start with ascension first; I beat ascension 20 on ironclad before I even attempted the heart. The heart is a huge jump in difficulty compared to ascensions.

I think that's a very poor way to design this game, since the Heart seems like the true ending but ascension seems like post-game "for the dedicated" content.

Well, it's not a RPG, so there really isn't a true ending to the game. I wouldn't classify ascensions as post game content; they're very much part of the actual game. To me, true post game content is playing other save slots after getting 100% completion on one of them.

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by chiro:

Originally posted by wafflekitty:

I think that's a very poor way to design this game, since the Heart seems like the true ending but ascension seems like post-game "for the dedicated" content.

Well, it's not a RPG, so there really isn't a true ending to the game. I wouldn't classify ascensions as post game content; they're very much part of the actual game. To me, true post game content is playing other save slots after getting 100% completion on one of them.

Uh.... This is blatantly false. The achievements for defeating the Heart refer to reaching "The Ending," and each character gets a unique victory screen off of it. The Heart is intended as the "true final boss", and defeating it is how you actually slay the spire once and for all. Would your opinion be different if the credits only played if you killed the Heart?

In any event, I'm going to agree with faceplant on this one. The first 1-15 levels of Ascension are certainly difficulty modifiers, but they also teach you how to play the game better. Just look at A1: Extra Elites. It's common practice (right or wrong) for new players to find Elites very difficult to the point of just avoiding them. So what does A1 do? Add more of them to make that frequently impossible. Because it's impossible to avoid them all, you start figuring out how to kill them instead, and from there, you realize that beating Elites leads to more victories overall because of the extra Relics (and sometimes better card picks). It isn't until A15 that Ascension starts to be blatantly unfair to you (Unfavorable Events), so everything up to that point could be seen as degrees of training for how to play the game optimally.

[sandman25dcsss]

Ascensions is not postendgame, they serve as difficulty levels. In other games you can start at easy difficulty, then move to normal and finally to hard. A0 is boring to me, I win despite bad card choices and tactical mistakes. Some people like playing A0 because it is easier to create a funny deck there. Current situation with heart is perfect as it allows all kinds of players to get what they want.

[khiro]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Originally posted by chiro:

Well, it's not a RPG, so there really isn't a true ending to the game. I wouldn't classify ascensions as post game content; they're very much part of the actual game. To me, true post game content is playing other save slots after getting 100% completion on one of them.

Uh.... This is blatantly false. The achievements for defeating the Heart refer to reaching "The Ending," and each character gets a unique victory screen off of it. The Heart is intended as the "true final boss", and defeating it is how you actually slay the spire once and for all. Would your opinion be different if the credits only played if you killed the Heart?

No, the credits mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to me and so does the name of an achievement. There really is no significant story in this game, and the "end" of the game is subjective.

It's not like true RPGs that have actual endings where you'd get emotional after it's over and mad if someone spoiled it for you.

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by chiro:

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Uh.... This is blatantly false. The achievements for defeating the Heart refer to reaching "The Ending," and each character gets a unique victory screen off of it. The Heart is intended as the "true final boss", and defeating it is how you actually slay the spire once and for all. Would your opinion be different if the credits only played if you killed the Heart?

No, the credits mean ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to me and so does the name of an achievement. There really is no significant story in this game, and the "end" of the game is subjective.

It's not like true RPGs that have actual endings where you'd get emotional after it's over and mad if someone spoiled it for you.

Story is not the only defining factor for a true ending; Act IV is clearing intended to be a true ending by the metrics that other games use. It 1) requires multiple playthroughs to achieve, 2) results in a special ending cutscene, 3) has a bonus boss that is significantly harder than any previous boss and 4) resolves the game's primary conflict. Just because this isn't an RPG doesn't mean their can't be a true ending. Not only are there many RPGs that don't have such an ending (your average Final Fantasy comes to mind), there are also many non-RPGs that do: most 3D Sonic the Hedgehog titles, every Touhou, the exploration based Castlevania games, and for that matter, pick any random visual novel that isn't kinetic and it probably has a true ending. It isn't about story, it's about closure, being able to say, "This is the end, I have finished _______."

[Khor]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Story is not the only defining factor for a true ending; Act IV is clearing intended to be a true ending

Is it really?
The achievement isn`t called "the end" but.... "the end?"

dun dun duuuuun....

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Story is not the only defining factor for a true ending; Act IV is clearing intended to be a true ending

Is it really?
The achievement isn`t called "the end" but.... "the end?"

dun dun duuuuun....

That's the achievement for completing a normal run with each character (ie, unlocking the ability to access Act IV). The ones for defeating the Heart are Ruby+, Emerald+, and Sapphire+.

[Khor]

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

Originally posted by Khor:

Is it really?
The achievement isn`t called "the end" but.... "the end?"

dun dun duuuuun....

That's the achievement for completing a normal run with each character (ie, unlocking the ability to access Act IV). The ones for defeating the Heart are Ruby+, Emerald+, and Sapphire+.

Ruby+ Complete the Ending with the Ironclad.
Emerald+ Complete the Ending with the Silent.
Sapphire+ Complete the Ending with the Defect.

The End? Complete the Ending with the Ironclad, Silent, and Defect.

Not that it changes anything in the contest of his thread

[Dusk_Army]

Originally posted by Khor:

Originally posted by Dusk_Army:

That's the achievement for completing a normal run with each character (ie, unlocking the ability to access Act IV). The ones for defeating the Heart are Ruby+, Emerald+, and Sapphire+.

Ruby+ Complete the Ending with the Ironclad.
Emerald+ Complete the Ending with the Silent.
Sapphire+ Complete the Ending with the Defect.

The End? Complete the Ending with the Ironclad, Silent, and Defect.

Not that it changes anything in the contest of his thread :lolslime:

Ah, my bad. I misread the description. Thank you for the correction.

[✪ Wuhan Warrior 🍉🍉]

Originally posted by DJDiceZ:

Do keep in mind that Ascension 0 Heart =/= Ascension 20 Heart.

Actually both are about the same, strategy-wise. Not all decks are fit to face the heart anyways.

And obviously heart runs are not meant for weak-hearted kids.