Slay the Spire

Slay the Spire

Gottschkopf 2019 年 6 月 7 日 上午 6:13
Kill the first Boss. Open the Chest.
Snecko Eye, Coffee Dripper, Fusion Hammer.

Time to roll a new character.
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正在显示第 31 - 45 条,共 55 条留言
Gottschkopf 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 3:16 
Snecko eye is bad on every deck that hasn't more 2- or 3-cost cards than 1- or 0-cost.
Xiander 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 3:49 
引用自 Gottschkopf
Snecko eye is bad on every deck that hasn't more 2- or 3-cost cards than 1- or 0-cost.

This is not true.
Let's take the ironclad starter deck as an example. Ten cards, nine of them one cos and then bash for two. Now everey time you draw eight cards, theoretically you get two of each cost.
With snecko eye you draw seven cards every turn. Statisticslly that means you can play two to four cards a turn. This is already better than standard, and on the occasions where you play bash for zero it is very good.
Of course there will be turns where everything is too expensive, but there will also be turns where everything is free.
So yes, the relic is better ifyou have a lot pf expensive cards, but even with a fairly standard deck it is still usefull.
最后由 Xiander 编辑于; 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 3:56
Gottschkopf 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 4:00 
引用自 chung_kuel
引用自 Gottschkopf
Snecko eye is bad on every deck that hasn't more 2- or 3-cost cards than 1- or 0-cost.

This is not true.
Let's take the ironclad starter deck as an example. Ten cards, nine of them one cos and then bash for two. Now everey time you draw eight cards, theoretically you get two of each cost.
With snecko eye you draw seven cards every turn. Statisticslly that means you can play two to four cards a turn. This is already better than standard, and on the occasions where you play bash for zero it is very good.
Of course there will be turns where everything is too expensive, but there will also be turns where everything is free.
So yes, the relic is better ifyou have a lot pf expensive cards, but even with a fairly standard deck it is still usefull.

Has anyone done some digging in the code? Because I have the feeling SE doesn't distribute the four costs (0-3) evenly, but rather tends to the middle ones (1-2).
Zu 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 4:38 
Imagine arguing once again about randomization averages while the actual reason to pick snecko eye is cheating out echo form or cycling spot weakness way faster than you otherwise could because you draw 2 extra cards each turn. Ring of the serpent is weeping in a corner.
corbet 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 8:38 
fusion hammer aint bad, nor is sneko eye. sneko eye aim for more expensive cards, and fusion hammer get apothesos, aim for more aggressive route choosing so you can use bondfires to heal instead of upgrade, as a result you get better relics that way.

i personally don't use coffee dripper. i consider one of them relics added to make gamers think twice about sacrifcing starting relic for a boss relic.

i forgot to mention that ironclad can upgrade all the cards in his deck with a 'common' card, aswell.
khiro 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 9:31 
jesus christ, i finally found a community dumber than reddit. Snecko eye bad? Coffee dripper bad? Fusion hammer bad? Y'all giving me a seizure, those are top tier relics.
khiro 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 9:52 
Alright I'll give my reasoning. Many of you probably underestimate the value of drawing 2 additional cards per turn. Becoming confused is a drawback that is worth it most of the time. In fact, you can spin it into an upside in most defect and ironclad decks, as they have quite a few expensive cards worth drafting.

Many players also underrate having extra energy. The extra energy from dripper/hammer are definitely worth not being able to rest/forge at campfires. Sure, dripper can be risky sometimes, but if you are ironclad, or took self repair on defect, you already got sources of heal. Also, you shouldn't really be taking too much damage by about halfway through act 2 anyway. The bulk of your deaths should be to bosses. Fusion hammer is a bit more annoying for me because I often don't need to rest, but then again I usually play ironclad where armaments+ is a thing. Apotheosis is also a card that almost completely mitigates the drawback of fusion hammer. If you do manage to get a campfire relic like shovel or girya, both of these relics become significantly better.

引用自 DJDiceZ
Philosopher's stone is as free energy as the sozu, and cursed bell can be mitigated in a decent run.

Philly's stone is far from free energy (sozu isn't free at all either if you use potions optimally). Birds, snake plant, book of stabbing, the heart, or literally any other enemy that does multi attacks with gladly take that strength and make your life a considerable amount worse. I'm not saying it's a bad relic though. I take it a lot, since the energy is usually very much worth it. It's just not "free energy", which is what I would use to describe cursed key.

Cursed bell's downside can be mitigated, but at what cost? You're spending 3 card removes for 3 relics that are very rarely run-changing. Sure, once I swapped relics for bell and got dead branch and that carried me, but that's definitely not something you can count on; not to mention I very nearly died from the curses.


引用自 Blood Flowers
引用自 Khor
Woah...there's really a discussion whether Fusion Hammer is good or bad....

I think a lot of the people saying Fusion Hammer is good play on lower ascensions where upgraded cards are fairly common rewards, whereas the group saying it is bad play on A20 where you get ♥♥♥♥ everything. xD
I've beaten a20 like 10 times by now, and fusion hammer is good. It may be situational, but it's good alright.

最后由 khiro 编辑于; 2019 年 6 月 13 日 上午 10:06
Blood Flowers 2019 年 6 月 14 日 下午 2:04 
引用自 xroptera
引用自 Blood Flowers
I think a lot of the people saying Fusion Hammer is good play on lower ascensions where upgraded cards are fairly common rewards, whereas the group saying it is bad play on A20 where you get ♥♥♥♥ everything. xD
I've beaten a20 like 10 times by now, and fusion hammer is good. It may be situational, but it's good alright.

Uh, saying that it is situational is pretty much the same as saying that it is bad. See your own cursed bell example.

You don't take an act 1 fusion hammer unless you already have apotheosis/some way to upgrade cards/relevant eggs. Otherwise you're just gambling on faith not probability.
最后由 Blood Flowers 编辑于; 2019 年 6 月 14 日 下午 2:05
Gottschkopf 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 2:51 
引用自 Blood Flowers
引用自 xroptera

I've beaten a20 like 10 times by now, and fusion hammer is good. It may be situational, but it's good alright.

Uh, saying that it is situational is pretty much the same as saying that it is bad. See your own cursed bell example.

You don't take an act 1 fusion hammer unless you already have apotheosis/some way to upgrade cards/relevant eggs. Otherwise you're just gambling on faith not probability.
This.
JellyPuff 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 10:10 
引用自 Blood Flowers
You don't take an act 1 fusion hammer unless you already have apotheosis/some way to upgrade cards/relevant eggs. Otherwise you're just gambling on faith not probability.
How often do you upgrade a card post act1 at camps vs getting them already upgraded or upgraded via relics/cards/events? And on ascension mode, act2 ist a rest-a-palooza where the downside of Fusion Hammer rarely shows.

You're more likely getting screwed by a lack of energy rather than a lack of upgraded cards.

The true gambling addict takes Busted Crown.
最后由 JellyPuff 编辑于; 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 10:12
Blood Flowers 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 10:41 
引用自 JellyPuff
引用自 Blood Flowers
You don't take an act 1 fusion hammer unless you already have apotheosis/some way to upgrade cards/relevant eggs. Otherwise you're just gambling on faith not probability.
How often do you upgrade a card post act1 at camps vs getting them already upgraded or upgraded via relics/cards/events? And on ascension mode, act2 ist a rest-a-palooza where the downside of Fusion Hammer rarely shows.

You're more likely getting screwed by a lack of energy rather than a lack of upgraded cards.

The true gambling addict takes Busted Crown.

Uh, on A20 you don't really get upgraded cards as drops. Eggs and all are nice, but it's low odds of getting one (and for the Silent, Molten Egg is super useless).

Most of my card upgrades come from upgrading at campfires. Generally 2+ upgrades every Act. Especially for the Silent, when your upgrades tend to be qualitative changes (3 poison vs 2 poison on Noxious Fumes, 2 cards vs 1 card on WLP, 3 vs 2 turns of intangible on Wraith Form, etc).

You will get screwed by a lack of energy AND a lack of upgraded cards, but if I had to choose between having only one of the two, I would choose to have upgraded cards and lack energy any day. You can win 3 energy A20 Heart Runs a fair amount of the time. You will pretty much never win an A20 Heart Run with no upgraded cards.

Also, yes, don't take Busted Crown in Act 1 unless you already have Question Card. I tend to avoid Kite too.

Personal opinion on ordering of energy relics (best to worst):

[Excluded Snecko's Eye because it's too dependent on current deck and cards available to that character (e.g. Silent doesn't really like Snecko's Eye much while Ironclad does really well with it based on their card pools)]

Act 1:
Ironclad's > Stone > Coffee > Key > Dome > Choker > Defect's > Sozu > Ectoplasm > Crown > Hammer > Kite

Act 2:
Ironclad's > Stone > Key > Coffee > Sozu > Defect's > Ectoplasm > Crown > Hammer > Choker > Dome > Kite

Reasons:
Ironclad's Relic - is just great. Those two wounds often end up being beneficial rather than detrimental.

Stone - 1 STR is pretty much nothing. It only sucks if you're Defect vs Birds without Electrodynamics.

Coffee > Key in Act 1 because (at least) two curses from Key. Reverses in Act 2 because only one guaranteed curse from Key. Coffee is great because resting can generally be avoided. Key is great because generally speaking a few curses can be removed or prove not seriously detrimental.

Dome - better through Act 2 when the movesets of enemies are significantly more predictable. Much worse in Act 3/4 when the bosses (and elites) tend to switch up their moves a ton.

Choker - better when you have less cards to play. You will tend to have less card draw/energy/etc in Act 2 than Act 3.

Defect's Relic - is free energy at next to no cost... unless you evoke it at which point it becomes a burst of energy but then no extra energy subsequently. A little tricky to use and I honestly don't play enough Defect to really give this a more accurate ranking.

Sozu - Potions tend to be more valuable in Act 2 (i.e. a 20 damage fire potion is pretty useful for finishing off a slaver in Act 2 but useless vs Giant Head in Act 3). There are obviously some exceptions to this (Ghost in a Jar). Still, not terribly bad to go without potions (and you can still save the ones in your slots for when you need them).

Ectoplasm - No gold feels really bad. Picking this up in Act 1 will often cost you ~700 gold if I had to guess. Still feels bad even after Act 2, but far less bad. Plus, the thieves only appear in Act 2 (also 1, but not relevant).

Crown - You probably won't be able to get a good deck together if you take this in Act 1. Possible to get lucky and find what you need in stores though.

Hammer - You probably won't be able to get a good deck together if you take this in Act 1. Significantly better if you already have relevant Eggs, Apotheosis, or some other way to upgrade cards.

Kite - I hate this relic. It's pretty much just a way to cycle your deck. You gain 1 energy but are then forced to spend 1 energy drawing cards (and this is assuming you have enough card draw). Significantly better if you have Snecko's Eye or Runic Pyramid already.
最后由 Blood Flowers 编辑于; 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 11:13
Zu 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 11:30 
引用自 Blood Flowers
#1 Mark of pain is just great. Those two wounds often end up being beneficial rather than detrimental.
What[i.imgur.com] is this? Some next level illuminati strat that's not doing the rounds yet?
Blood Flowers 2019 年 6 月 15 日 上午 11:32 
引用自 Zu
引用自 Blood Flowers
#1 Mark of pain is just great. Those two wounds often end up being beneficial rather than detrimental.
What[i.imgur.com] is this? Some next level illuminati strat that's not doing the rounds yet?

I've always found status cards to be incredibly useful on the Ironclad. Good for True Grit+, Second Wind, Evolve, etc.
Khor 2019 年 6 月 15 日 下午 12:07 
Cool. I`d go:
Dripper - Stone - Sozu - Key - Pain - Battery - Dome - Chocker - Ectoplasm > Crown > Hammer > Kite

Remember kids, self-wounding is an addiction and a sign of mental disorder
If your Ironclad is Self-wounding don`t keep quiet. If you see something say something!

JellyPuff 2019 年 6 月 15 日 下午 12:28 
I play A0 almost exclusively and rarely go for the heart, because i think it's not a very fun fight. Act4 as a whole isn't very fun imo. So do take the following with a grain of salt.

Key > Stone > Crawling in my skin these wounds they will not heal > Dripper > Battery > Sozu > Dome > Hammer > Crown > Choker > Edit: Ectoplasm > Roses are red, violets are blue, i never take Kite and neither do you

I can't remember ever loosing to an act3 boss with artifact + Berserk/Speed potion. That's why Sozu isn't exactly my favourite.
最后由 JellyPuff 编辑于; 2019 年 6 月 15 日 下午 1:05
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发帖日期: 2019 年 6 月 7 日 上午 6:13
回复数: 55