The starting reward system punishes starting new runs

[McGunner]

I actually really like existance of the system, where at the start of the run you can choose a bonus. to compair it with BOI it seems like choosing different characters.

But I don't see why this reward system must be dependent on the last run's performance.
I can feel when I'm not going to get the bonus I'm less interested in starting a new run.
Dev may have a good reason for having this system, but I cant see it, and I sofar only feel frustrated by it.

[Frenzy85]

It's most likely to prevent spam-resets.

And it seems that getting to 1st/2nd/3rd boss doesn't affect what you get... So as long as you can get to the first boss, you're good. Play for a couple of runs and you'll quickly see it's quite easy to do so reliably, especially considering you don't even have to beat the first boss for the bonus. Worse comes to worst, you'll be forced to take a path avoiding enemies before abandoning at the boss if you get a bad run.

And lastly, the bonus isn't that great, anyways, most of the time...

[McGunner]

The bonuses are pretty good, 100 more gold can buy you an extra relic, or you can get a (rare)relic directly from the bonus.

It's true, there is a play style which makes it really easy to get to the boss. But if you want to do 3 elite and minimize your rests, getting to the boss is not guaranteed.

What is exactly the worry about spam reseting? It's not like a spam reseter is getting an advantage outside what the game would allow, they just have a build in mind that they are trying to get to.

[mtgninja]

I agree with frenzy. In Binding of Isaac, a strategy was to hold R until you spawned beside a good treasure room.

[boba]

You shouldn't look at it as punishing new runs, but rewarding successful runs.

[Zebra Lass (Old)]

Yeah it's a little silly. Since it's a single-player game it shouldn't matter too much if people spam-reset for their god run. If that's how they want to play, why not let them?

You can already 'x' out of the game to reset a fight from the top if it's not going too well.

[Jeff]

I like it. If they make the game too easy to cheeze, it won't feel as rewarding when you win.

Playing runs that don't have an amazing start will make you a better player.

[Reya]

I wrote a long post analysing this in Beta Discussions but it got one post then the thread died so will repost here:

Originally posted by Gnilneelps:

While I must say I quite like the new Risk/Reward option that the new Beta added is has once again brought up the fact it is not fun to take one of the risk/reward options and get something renders the task of even getting to the first boss difficult if not impossible.

Some of the rare relic and even some of the Boss Relics you end up with are while useful when combined with the right cards, they useless if not even hindering to have at the start of a run. Some even cripple the player like getting the Velvet Choker as Silent.

This leads to frustration when you take one of these choices hoping for some fun and interesting start and get given something that makes getting to the first boss and being able to get Neow to give you something next time more frustrating than anything.

In every other Roguelike or Roguelike-like taking one of these kind of Risk/Reward and getting screwed over by the RNG is not all that bad or can even add to the enjoyment. In STS however they just frusrating because you have to get to the first boss or have to start over the base card set. While this is not much of a problem at first when you still get progression towards Unlocks once you have everything and you are playing to try out new and interesting card combos, having to start with only the base card set because RNG screwed you over and you could not get to the first boss is a slap in the face for taking a risk and getting an unviaable bulid.

My Suggestion is to have as a reward for beating the game with a particular character, on all subsecquint runs with that character have Neow always give a blessing.

And in case you are tempted to suggest I "Get Gud" I have over 140 hours in this game and have beaten every boss at least once. Sometimes you get a run that reguardless of how well you play there is no way to win because you may have had a great deck but if you don't draw the cards you need that counts for nothing.

I only wish to point how unplasesant it is to be Killed by the RNG and then have to start with nothing when all other Roguelike I have played do not punish you by withholding starting Perks because you Died on the first floor.

[tha grumbie]

A lot of the time, you don't even know how the run is going to go until you get to the first boss anyway.

[Reya]

Originally posted by tha grumbie:

A lot of the time, you don't even know how the run is going to go until you get to the first boss anyway.

As I said in my previous post getting some Boss Relic as your starting Relic can render reaching the first Boss extremely difficult. For example I just got handed the Snecko Eye and had to give up on that round due to the Snecko Eye being not only useless at the start but outright Crippling due to it's effect..

[Stellatedline92]

The starting bonus system definitely needs some work. i feel like it should be a way to help push through the early levels so you can reach the harder levels that you dont get to see every run, while also not carrying you through the whole game.

The requirement for the first boss kill can be pretty annoying sometimes, though i know its to stop rerolling runs infinitly. if you lose a good run, restart with a bonus and get unlucky and lose that run before the first boss, then you have to restart again this time without any bonus making the first level seem that much slower.

i wish they would implement unlocks similar to the binding of isaac where every once and a while and unlock grants a small bonus to the start of a certain character. Maybe they could make it so certain characters always start with a certain relic or card or maybe just increase your characters health, strength, or dexterity slightly. You could still have the three random options after beating the first boss and starting over, but having some consistency in the starting bonus would be nice.

[loneknight]

I think the requirement now is merely reaching the first boss, not beating it.

Anyway, I think not having it on some runs at all sucks, because the first floor with starter cards only is very formulaic for the first 10-20 minutes, which gets repetitive, since thats the part of the game you always get to play (which is why you take more risks to make it more exciting and then die to the triple guardian boss leading to an bonus-less run... but that's besides the point). The starting bonus helps mitigate that and gives you a direction you can build towards instantly, something that doesn't really happen until you get your first relic otherwise.

A good point was made about the requirement stopping rerolling. There can be an argument made if rerolling would be a problem in StS at all, but the point is, even if it is, I would still prefer if some other method would be used to discourage it.

[King Joshington]

Originally posted by Gnilneelps:

My Suggestion is to have as a reward for beating the game with a particular character, on all subsecquint runs with that character have Neow always give a blessing.

This is a really cool suggestion.

[Horrow]

Originally posted by Zebra Lord:

Yeah it's a little silly. Since it's a single-player game it shouldn't matter too much if people spam-reset for their god run. If that's how they want to play, why not let them?

You can already 'x' out of the game to reset a fight from the top if it's not going too well.

One could ask, why can't you just play the game as it was meant to be played? If its not to one's liking, one could just leave. The game can't please everyone, there's too many opinions and preferences.

[loneknight]

Originally posted by Horrow:

One could ask, why can't you just play the game as it was meant to be played? If its not to one's liking, one could just leave. The game can't please everyone, there's too many opinions and preferences.

You could make that argument for literally any suggestion, good or bad. Just saying.

[PadainFain]

Wouldn't mind a permanent reward system for having beaten it once, but maybe later, when the game is more fleshed out. Perhaps when there are more floors to the basic game mode and the reward offered scaled with floors defeated? Right now though you only need to reach (or beat?) the first boss and that's not hard. Worse case scenario you go without a reward once every few hours.

As for the first part of the first floor being formulaic. That is true. Perhaps we could get to choose 5 cards from a selection of common and uncommon pools (no rares or colourless) at the start to kick us off in a direction and then the encounters could start out harder to balance.