Why We Need An Undead Race Trait

[GrandMajora]

Channel Negative Energy (Heal Undead)

As of the current state of the game, this feature benefits exactly ONE character in the entire party, Jaethal. Every other party member and playable races are living mortals.

Which means that Evil Clerics are effectively WORTHLESS for the sake of their Channel Energy feature.

And before you people chime in with arguments to the contrary: Yes, I know there are ways around this. If I remember correctly, the Undead Bloodline for Sorcerers and Eldritch Scions, as well as the Death domain for Clerics eventually unlock a trait that lets you heal from negative energy. However, these are very niche groups of characters and they still suffer from the flaw in that none of the official characters fall into that category. The only way you'll get an Undead Bloodline, or a Death Domain Cleric is to make one yourself.



Now, I'm willing to admit that allowing you to play as an Undead straight from the start of the game might be strange, especially since Jaethal's reveal is supposed to be a surprise. But you could at the very least include an option to have Jaethal raise your character after discovering she has the power to do so.

The in game dialogue also gives the player the chance to suggest that they might actually be interested in becoming Undead. You can ask Jaethal about her condition, and comment on how you see benefits to such an existence. Really, all the set up is there, but the game doesn't allow you to explore the option further. :-(

[Locklave]

Evil clerics can kill enemies with Channel Negative Energy.

Not worthless, just worthless for strictly healing.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Locklave:

Evil clerics can kill enemies with Channel Negative Energy.

But a good / neutral cleric can both kill enemies (undead ones, at least), AND heal the party.

[Locklave]

Evil clerics get the shaft in Pathfinder I do agree, they play like a damage dealer casters that aren't very good at it. Good/Neutral is more functional without question. However, hyperbolic arguments of things being worthless don't help.

I fully support undead race features being added as well any options that allow the players more uniqueness so long as it's balanced.

[Iry]

Killing living enemies with Channel Negative Energy is the primary function of that ability. And there are far more living enemies than undead enemies (though undead are quite numerous).

[Lightning]

Don't undead already have a trait? They're immune to death, poison charm and something else?

[Iry]

Originally posted by Lightning:

Don't undead already have a trait? They're immune to death, poison charm and something else?

They have two, and you can see them in Jaethal's ability sheet. You can also add them to your own character with mods, and it works as advertised.

[Lightning]

Originally posted by Iry:

Originally posted by Lightning:

Don't undead already have a trait? They're immune to death, poison charm and something else?

They have two, and you can see them in Jaethal's ability sheet. You can also add them to your own character with mods, and it works as advertised.

oh wow lol

[Adeptus Stark]

Sword's Coast Legends had this type of failure, among other glaring issues. While it was changed to later getting the class that NPC's only had, the game was already dead.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Tom:

Sword's Coast Legends had this type of failure, among other glaring issues. While it was changed to later getting the class that NPC's only had, the game was already dead.

Sword Coast Legends had the fatal flaw of having the story play out the exact same way, no matter what character you made. Every line of dialogue was identical for every type of character, and the NPC's didn't even acknowledge your alignment, or race. The game had zero replay value, because once you beat it the first time, there was nothing new to discover.

Seriously, when they added Tieflings to the game, I tried playing one, and that elven priestess said "I see nothing demonic about you."

And when I made a Drow, she acted perfectly fine with me. But once the illusionist revealed that he was actually a Drow in disguise, she has an emotional breakdown and starts raving about how ALL Drow are evil, wicked, untrustworthy creatures, and how the only good Drow she's ever met in her life was long dead!

[Iry]

Hahaha. Yeah, even Kanerah barely seems to recognize that you might also be a Tiefling. She does have a few lines of dialog about it, but not when she is talking about what it means to be a tiefling.

[Amigo]

Undead are unkillable right? They cant die. Heres your imbalance.

[Bob of Mage]

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types/#TOC-Undead

Undead have a ton of things that don't effect them. And on top of that they also can't be targeted by attacks that only affect humanoids (which is a fair number of the low to med level non-damage spells like hold person, or reduce person).

Undead also have a bunch of weaknesses. The worst being that if they ever go to 0 hp they are down for the count. The only reason a certain undead elf is even usable is because her goddess breaks the rules for her.

Finally there are a number of attack that target only undead, and the AI would need to be set up to use them more often. Disrupt Undead for example never seems to be used by the AI despite it being a very common level 0 spell, and dealing twice the damage of the other level 0s.

[GrandMajora]

Originally posted by Amigo:

Undead are unkillable right? They cant die. Heres your imbalance.

They auto revive if your party manages to survive the fight. But if everybody is knocked out, you still get game over.

And besides, when the game was being developed, they offered Dhampir (half vampires) as a voting option for which playable races to include. Aasimar won, because most players hate exploring new options, and just want to stick to the same, repetitive races and classes that have appeared in literally every D&D game throughout the decades.

[JonWoo]

Originally posted by GrandMajora:

Originally posted by Amigo:

Undead are unkillable right? They cant die. Heres your imbalance.

They auto revive if your party manages to survive the fight. But if everybody is knocked out, you still get game over.

And besides, when the game was being developed, they offered Dhampir (half vampires) as a voting option for which playable races to include. Aasimar won, because most players hate exploring new options, and just want to stick to the same, repetitive races and classes that have appeared in literally every D&D game throughout the decades.

Dhampir aren't undead though, they're still considered living creatures.

[Iry]

And when it comes to edgy roleplaying, way more people are half vampire than half angel.
Just look at Vampire: the Masquerade. =D