Min/Max TheoryCrafting

[Drake Ravenwolf]

I can't help myself >.>

Looking into the "learning caps" and how they can be manipulated with "internalized thoughts" I realized you could min/max quite a bit here...

First, which thoughts pair well with each other?
Low INT:
-Some kind of Superstar = Learning cap for Visual Calculus raised to 6
-Kingdom of Conscience (or DoB Generator) = Learning cap for Logic raised to 5
-Advanced Race Theory = Learning Cap for Rhetoric raised to 5
-Jamais Vu (Derealization) = All INT learning caps raised by 1

Low PSY:
-Some kind of Superstar = Learning cap for Suggestion raised to 6
-Cop of the Apocalypse = Learning cap for Inland Empire raised to 6
-Kingdom of Conscience = Learning Cap for Volition raised to 5
-Overproductive Honour Glands = Learning cap for Authority raised to 5
-Guillaume Le Million = All PSY Learning Caps raised by 1
-Waste Land of Reality = PSY+1
-Remote Viewers Division = -1 difficulty to all PSY passive checks

Low FYS: (Physical)
-Some kind of Superstar = Learning cap for Electrochemistry raised to 6
-Rigorous Self-Critique = Pain Threshold learning cap raised to 6
-Cop of the Apocalypse (or Hobocop) = Learning cap for Shivers raised to 6
-Volumetric Puke Compressor = Learning cap for Endurance raised to 4
-Anti-Object Task Force = All FYS learning caps raised by 1
-Date of Birth Generator = -1 difficulty to all FYS passive checks

Low MOT:
-Some kind of Superstar = Learning cap for Composure raised to 6
-Bringing the Law = Learning Cap for Hand/Eye Coordination raised to 6
-The Fifteenth Indotribe = Learning Cap for Savoir Faire raised to 6
-Lonesome long way home = Perception learning cap raised to 5
-Caustic Echo / White Mourning = All MOT learning caps raised by 1

Good for all builds:
Actual Art Degree = Conceptualization passives heal +1 Morale and +10 XP
The Fifteenth Indotribe = 10 cents for each green orb clicked
Wompty-Dompty Dom Centre = Encyclopedia passives give +10 XP and +2 réal
<one of the ideologies; Ultraliberal, Communist, Moralist>


Looking just at the learning cap raisers;
INT gets one set to 6 and two set to 5
PSY gets two set to 6 and two set to 5
FYS gets three set to 6 and one set to 4
MOT gets three set to 6 and one set to 5

Thus a low FYS/MOT build would seem to be the best place to start, and a low INT build being the least profitable.

This quote by Xander77 suggests a 4/4/2/2 or 6/2/2/2 spilt might be ideal...

Originally posted by Xander77:

So you will always succeed at trivial checks, need at least 2 in a skill to succeed at easy checks, 4 or 5 for medium checks, 6 for challenging checks, 7 for formidable checks, 8 for legendary checks, 10 for godly checks, 12 for impossible checks

I might expand this into a full blown guide when I do more work on it.

Sources:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2155956120
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1894736429

[ryeply]

As someone into min/maxing I'd love a full blown guide on this at some point. Especially since final cut is releasing soon

[Du-Vu]

Keep going, these kinds of guides are always nice to have. If there's a game that can benefit from plenty of in-depth, granular faqs, it's one with as many branching paths as this one.

[Drake Ravenwolf]

Using the values for number of passive calls to each skill as weights from:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1948691016
I did some calculations on relative attribute weight; aka which attributes gain the most from going from a base of 2 to the max of 6 on character creation and the relative weights are as follows:
INT: 6.6
PSY: 5.3
FYS: 2.8
MOT: 2.6
Thus a 6/2/2/2 build is def "better" than a 2/6/2/2, 2/2/6/2, or 2/2/2/6 build
Intuitively I'd have to assume a 4/4 split wouldn't be as good as going all into one stat, but I do not have the numbers to prove that since the combination matrix for that would be a lot larger...
The specialization throws a wrench into things; PSY sees the most (weighted) gains from thoughts, but at the same time Empathy is the single highest weighted skill... thus I think dropping PSY to 1 while specializing in Empathy could result in the best min/max option there... but what to do with your extra point then...
In the end I think I'm just gonna cheat and set everything to 6 and specialize in literally every skill :-P
Here is my WIP spreadsheet if anyone wants it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/92mtljs3h5hif59/DE%20Theorycraft.ods

[wildnike]

Originally posted by Drake Ravenwolf:

-snip the awesome calcs for brevity-

Thus a low FYS/MOT build would seem to be the best place to start, and a low INT build being the least profitable.

Funnily enough, a PSY/INT focused build tends to be the most "effective" one anyways for the story of DE, given the frequency of important checks which come up from the former and the analysis to quickly piece together those checks with the latter. Additionally, this fits Harry's older character, since he has traded his superstar youth for an individual with more perspective. Moreover, a FYS/MOT build can imply a player's Harry being built to try and regain that superstar lifestyle even if the universe disagrees.

Not sure if that is intended by the devs at all, but it's cool to see the math check out around the speculation.

[kruckster]

I know this thread is old, but as someone who is on Day 4 and feeling like he's getting to the end, I definitely have some thoughts on this. Because I love min/maxing RPGs (even if you don't need to with a game like DE).

IMO the most bang for your buck is to start determining your build around the "Boring Cop" thought, which boosts all learning caps to 3. this means that a 5-5-1-1 build with this particular thought boosts your low stat skills by 2 apiece, bringing them all to a max of 4. I believe this is the optimal path because "Boring Cop" will only raise caps by a total of 3 with a 6-2-2-2 build instead of 4 here. Plus, starting with 2 base stats at 5 gives you some breathing room on a number of skill checks early on. Additionally, there are thoughts (1 for each stat) that boost all learning caps of a particular base stat by 1, which boosts our learning caps to a lovely 6-6-4-4 base before we factor in some additional bonuses. And we've only used 5 thought slots.

From here I think you *could* do a more detailed analysis of which skill checks are required for particular paths through the main plot to identify which thoughts could further optimize this build by raising individual learning caps. I definitely have not done that, but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

[Drake Ravenwolf]

I ended up cheating to see it all, and you can too :-P
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2460827326