A few questions about confederation

[Bugs]

So I'm trying the vampires and I'm playing Von Carstein. I have it in my head that I want to confederate the vampire counts. Unfortunately when I do confederate them, it tends to be after turn 60. He's already allocated points into useless traits. He holds on to his capital which I dearly want within 20 turns (it has gold and has enough building slots to be a reliable unit producing province). He only seems to agree to confederation when he's been crippled by another faction like the dwarves.

What are some specific rules for confederation? If I cripple him can I confederate him or would he not because I'm his enemy. Does anyone know an interesting tactic to get him into a position where he would confederate early on? I've tried 4 times but he just kinda builds an army and holds that one city. I really want him as a legendary lord to have my trio of undead lords.

[Greldinart]

theres 4 things for confederation:
1/ same race.
2/ good relationship 150-200 is enough i think...cash can help.
3/ weak military power for their size...thats the real deal, you must wait your ally to loose some stack, then propose right after they lost troops.
4/ timer between confederation.

so basically you must trick your ally in battle...like declare war with their neighboor, they join, but make peace uniltareally....or make a joint battle, and let him attack alone lol..
or you can recruit Yuan Shao in LL in a tavern, that could work too

[Bugs]

Originally posted by Greldinart:

theres 4 things for confederation:
1/ same race.
2/ good relationship 150-200 is enough i think...cash can help.
3/ weak military power for their size...thats the real deal, you must wait your ally to loose some stack, then propose right after they lost troops.
4/ timer between confederation.

so basically you must trick your ally in battle...like declare war with their neighboor, they join, but make peace uniltareally....or make a joint battle, and let him attack alone lol..
or you can recruit Yuan Shao in LL in a tavern, that could work too

Yeah, looks like I will have to trick him into battle. Most likely with Karak Kirn or whatever the dwarfs to the south are called. Looks like I have a lot of reloading in my future

[funkmonster7]

My recommendation is just kill Mannfred, early if possible, within the first 4 turns. That unique building chain you got in Castle Drakenhof is more useful than Mannfred is to you. If you're Mannfred, feel free to confederate the Von Carsteins though, but personally I kill them off too. Vampires can't recruit properly without possessing both Templehof and Drakenhof. (With Mannfred, you can take Templehof and leave the Von Carsteins alone, but not having a full province means no province buff and for Vampires, it is a big deal because you want the Growth buff.)

The ones you can consider confederating are Barrow Legion and Red Duke in Bretonnian lands. Kemmler is kinda meh, just your run of the mill Necromancer lord, but he is unique with Krell, if you like Krell. Red Duke is another Dragonblood Lord (or whaver it's called, been a long time since I played VC), so you can have a total of 4 of them rather than three, they're powerful, worth having them.

It's just that once you've gotten all Bloodline Lords, you won't have the economy to sustain them all on the field anyway. We're talking 17 armies, including the two Von Carsteins, not even including other generic lords. Mannfred just isn't worth the hassle you're putting yourself through, unless you like Mannfred for some reason. (I just think Mannfred has too much versatility but not being able to use all his skills makes him a bit weaker than he what he is actually capable of. It's a different story if his max level is 99...)

[Bugs]

Originally posted by funkmonster7:

My recommendation is just kill Mannfred, early if possible, within the first 4 turns. That unique building chain you got in Castle Drakenhof is more useful than Mannfred is to you. If you're Mannfred, feel free to confederate the Von Carsteins though, but personally I kill them off too. Vampires can't recruit properly without possessing both Templehof and Drakenhof. (With Mannfred, you can take Templehof and leave the Von Carsteins alone, but not having a full province means no province buff and for Vampires, it is a big deal because you want the Growth buff.)

The ones you can consider confederating are Barrow Legion and Red Duke in Bretonnian lands. Kemmler is kinda meh, just your run of the mill Necromancer lord, but he is unique with Krell, if you like Krell. Red Duke is another Dragonblood Lord (or whaver it's called, been a long time since I played VC), so you can have a total of 4 of them rather than three, they're powerful, worth having them.

It's just that once you've gotten all Bloodline Lords, you won't have the economy to sustain them all on the field anyway. We're talking 17 armies, including the two Von Carsteins, not even including other generic lords. Mannfred just isn't worth the hassle you're putting yourself through, unless you like Mannfred for some reason. (I just think Mannfred has too much versatility but not being able to use all his skills makes him a bit weaker than he what he is actually capable of. It's a different story if his max level is 99...)

Fair enough, oddly enough I did manage to confederate him at turn 15. I guess he isn't mind blowing, but for some odd reason I just wanted him as a general rather than see him gone forever.

[Frosty]

@Bugs
These are anecdotal observations but in my experience they seem to hold true: The AI is generally only interested in confederating when it is vulnerable (lost lots of land, is falling behind in the power/economy rankings) or if you've had a lengthy positive relationship with it for many, many turns. The End Times event considerably boosts their willingness to confederate. You should never enter military alliances with a faction you want to confederate. If you are their ally the AI sees itself in a stronger position and won't be as interested in confederating.

If you are not opposed to mods I hear good things about Flamingo's respec mod. That should solve your skill investment problem. Alternatively, if you ever get tired with chasing down the lords every run, you can also try my mod which grants you the legendary lords right away at turn 1.

[Inardesco]

There are mods where you can re-allocate the points for legendary lords upon confedarating. Like this one;

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1391653276

[Bugs]

Very interesting, thanks guys

[James Howlette]

If your looking into mods to potentially alleviate this there's one I use called Force Confederation. It gives you the ootion of forcing a confed-able faction into joining you when you take their last settlement.

Always nice to have when an AI faction is being particularly stubborn with confederation, or when you want an early confed.