Instalar Steam
iniciar sesión
|
idioma
简体中文 (chino simplificado)
繁體中文 (chino tradicional)
日本語 (japonés)
한국어 (coreano)
ไทย (tailandés)
Български (búlgaro)
Čeština (checo)
Dansk (danés)
Deutsch (alemán)
English (inglés)
Español de Hispanoamérica
Ελληνικά (griego)
Français (francés)
Italiano
Bahasa Indonesia (indonesio)
Magyar (húngaro)
Nederlands (holandés)
Norsk (noruego)
Polski (polaco)
Português (Portugués de Portugal)
Português-Brasil (portugués de Brasil)
Română (rumano)
Русский (ruso)
Suomi (finés)
Svenska (sueco)
Türkçe (turco)
Tiếng Việt (vietnamita)
Українська (ucraniano)
Comunicar un error de traducción
Normas y directrices sobre discusión
Denunciar este mensaje
I'm very sorry. If you happen to see it on sale (I'm not sure if it's still put on crazy sales or not) definitely check out the 2014 Source game. It's much more gritty and unforgiving without any of the insane AI behaviors in Sandstorm.
I would argue the best AI ever was was right after Nightfall. Now, I'm sure you weren't playing then, but when night maps were first added, bots were actually affected by it. Flashlights could even blind bots, reducing their effective engagement ability. I top fragged in a Hardcore match once with a Welrod equipped with a flashlight and 1.5x scope.
Sadly, 1.7.1 "Clean Sweep" did what it said it would do and swept all of the new AI behaviors with it. Bots now completely ignore night and play night maps just like day maps (an issue that hasn't been fixed to this day) and became snap-shot nightmares. In fact, after 1.11 I'd argue that the bots now might be even worse than the Clean Sweep bots pre-hotfix.
This is the worst take I've heard. Being in "cover" changes absolutely nothing. Hell, bots sometimes ignore your hard cover and just shoot you through it anyway with a weapon that shouldn't be able to do so (think 5.45 through sandbags).
Then that's your opinion - fine with me. I play in cover all the time and have no real problems to survive the whole match. See a lot of players with "Azrael" all the time. So apparently there IS a way to avoid being shot (often).
For me it's:
- staying in cover
- move slowly
- anticipate killzones
- slice, lean, check your surroundings
- listen, hear, watch areas where enemies are
- don't run with the pack
- check corners
- retreat if being shot at
What I see is this with most players:
- run into hordes of enemies
- stand in the open, firing into enemy hordes
- run around corners without slicing
- run into rooms blazing
- run, run, run (loud, enemy awareness)
- run in front of teammates
- not checking where teammates are
And yes, even if I will be bashed for this: It's about playstyle, not about the AI. The AI is inconsistent, yes, it's sometimes unfair, yes - but HOW OFTEN it will be unfair depends on you as the player as well. If you're not in situations where the enemy CAN be unfair, there will be no unfairness. Simple as that.
I wished the AI would be more consistent, fair, tactical, impaired with human perception etc. too. Absolutely. Hope devs still work on it and will continue to improve the AI (hopefully in the tactical department).
Nonetheless surviving matches in Hardcore (not playing Standard very often) is still possible and even easy for experienced players. So apparently it's not about the bots alone.
Any screenshots to prove this? I see it too, sometimes, but my follow-up question is; are those players actually doing anything? My guess would be probably not.
- Cover isn't always available, and sometimes bots ignore it anyway.
- Moving slow doesn't stop flickshots at all. Plus, on Survival you'll likely get overrun by attempting to move slow. Bots respawn indefinitely there. You don't.
- Just because you're expecting a killzone doesn't mean you actually survive clearing it. I'm fairly sure I know most bot camping spots on most maps and I will still get killed attempting to clear them from those spots.
- Slicing and checking your surroundings doesn't stop flickshots, either. Leaning does actually work but you don't need to play slow to take advantage of it. I would actually argue that rushing in and playing aggressive with leans is the best strategy for Hardcore.
- I notice that enemies love not making much sound when moving, especially on Hardcore.
- Running next to other teammates does guarantee that someone will get killed, although if you're the first one it likely won't be you.
- Retreating works, sometimes, although in some cases you'll either die instantly or near-instantly. Nothing you can do in that situation.
Even easy, you say?
You know what? I'm gonna hop on a Hardcore match right now and try these "high-speed" techniques and let you know how that works out. Something tells me I already know the answer.
Did a match just now as a Gunner with a Galil SAR. Now, to your credit:
That being said, I heavily cheesed the lean mechanic effectively making you invisible to bots that haven't spotted you yet. In a little bit I'll do another run with my Lean keybinds set to [UNBOUND] and see if I can pull off an Azrael without ever leaning, which I highly doubt.
Believe me, I see it all the time, and no, they have okayish kills. But yes, that's not the first goal if you wanna survive the whole match, so sometimes it's low (usually when your teammates are good and kill all enemies) and sometimes it's high (if your mates are bad and you're often last man standing).
Shame people don't teamplay on officials - not rare we finish with PTFO and no lost life when playing together tightly on community servers.
Some minutes ago we played on a modded server, bots seemed to be tough - carried a whole arsenal with us though (think it's ISMC carriers, where you can take 2 primaries). But not one single unfair shot the whole evening (2,5 hrs), I died 5 times today, only one round PTFO, but everytime I died, it was my fault. Wrong position, out of ammo, IFF took ages (there where some randoms on the server) etc. - That's why it seems we really have different experiences: If I stay in cover, bots usually have no clue what to do and if there's no cover, I flank into empty-country where no enemies are.
Yeah, Survival is another story. But there you can manage Azrael, too - but that's a lot tougher and maybe it's mostly trying to avoid enemies at all costs then. Not really sure though, didn't play it much after the update, never had Azrael. But was close with 1-2 deaths. Not my turf though, this running around like chickens gamemode ;)
Let's play a HC match together sometime - because it's really strange. It seems you play servers with way higher difficulty than myself. Let's see if I can get you asleep with my slow playstyle fast ;)
I see some players do that. Really skillfull - I would die more often with rushing, but yes, guess it's a viable tactic, too. But way more difficult with these bots.
True, but the flanking they did with 1.6 (iirc) isn't in the game anymore unfortunately. Rare they flank around you with Warlords, so if you don't walk into their typical pathways, it's rare they get behind you.
Haha, that's so true. That's why I really recommend NOT standing behind teammates anytime in this game. Always get shot through my teammates while they are perfectly fine ;) Same as laying down, this will kill you fast, too.
Highspeed in HC is ... difficult though ;)
And if you run all the time ... that's what I see often ... that's where the flickshots live ;)
Think so too. Without leaning, no chance. With leaning, no problem.
So I've played modded ISMC coop; both Normal and Hardcore. Normal still had some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, but you can tank more shots, so the flicks aren't really too noticeable. Also had some fairly smart-feeling AI (like getting flashbanged three times in a row lol).
Hardcore was a nightmare, though. Flickshots left and right, and sure, they likely won't kill you the first time, but after six 100% accurate flickshots you WILL be dead.
Well, the big issue with playing slow is that in most cases, people don't do it, so you kinda end up not doing anything. Plus, while some maps are pretty supportive of a slower playstyle, others are not. You can pretty easily take your time on Farmhouse, for instance, but Precinct or Outskirts? A single match is gonna last all day if you never sprint lmao.
Yeah, abusing the power of the lean greatly increases your odds of survival, but I kinda don't like doing it. It feels extremely cheap lmao.
Basically, flickshots happen regardless of how you play. Sure, you'll probably run into more garbage if you play like a moron, and I kinda expect that, but they'll happen when trying to play slow as well, and those flickshots really piss me off.
If I was running like a maniac and I get quickscoped by some asshat with a .50 cal sniper rifle, at least I feel like I could've done something differently to maybe change that outcome. But if I'm playing super careful like I'm playing SWAT 4 or something and I get dome'd by Chris Kyle sprinting around a corner fifty meters away, I'm tempted to just exit the game and play Skyrim or something.
True, it takes more time and in some cases you won’t be on the obj in time - but that’s ok with me, then I stay outside and flank into the attacking enemies and help the team with shutting down a lane.
Works, too.
You really think so? For me it feels immersive, wouldn’t put out more inches of my precious skin as I had to in reallife - I remember a course where we trained exactly all these stances to not expose too much of yourself while in cover.
So for me it feels like it’s intended and as far as games can offer, it feels realistic, too.
Not sure if they changed smth in this patch, but it isn’t as easy anymore, bots seem to recognize leaning players earlier at some point, so now you really have to get back into cover more often. Still works though.
Me too, but sometimes I don’t get any the whole evening. That’s why I wrote, in my experience it greatly improved over the last 2 updates, buddies I play with have the same impression. So apparently it suits one specific playstyle, while it ruins others. Leaning often (we bunch arw all playing super carefully) seems to be the key component.
Agree, I experience this very rarely, but it ruins the whole idea of playing cautiously. Guess that’s why so few players try to play like this.
Some time and updates ago, I had some beef with Mr. .50, running with his monsterrifle in the air, who had no trouble flicking me dead - you clearly could see he was shooting in the air in replays ;) But yeah, shots coming out of the head problematic ...
Haven’t had this specific bug for a long time now. Not sure if it is because of my frightened butt is storaged behind cover all the time or they really changed it.
In our mod we nerfed his time to turn and perception and got good results, guess it’s what devs did, too.
I will try to do what you did: Highspeed. Curious what will happen. Gonna try some aggressive playstyle and see what the deathcounter says ;)
Well, I think it makes sense to some degree. But it's far stronger than you probably realize.
Basically, when bots first spot you they take your current position into account, which actually doesn't adjust for if you're leaning. Ever since 1.8, however, they will be able to see you if they've already spotted you and you attempt to re-peek with a lean around something. That might be the only change in that update that I noticed; I'm not sure which update limited the bot's maximum range to a hard number.
That being said, with a good position the lean is busted. It basically lets you watch entire lanes or streets with impunity. Combine the lean cheese with map knowledge (i.e. you know when and where the bots are going to be) and it's pretty much a cakewalk.
Also, THIS is what a strawman is.