Every gun feels useless compared to the G3, FAL Mk14 and SVD

[Jimmy]

even in close quarters, 1hks are way better, the other guns should have some kind of bonus like way increased ADS speed or something

[nonex1stent]

Originally posted by Jimmy:

even in close quarters, 1hks are way better, the other guns should have some kind of bonus like way increased ADS speed or something

The obvious difference should be recoil, but that would just make other guns than the M4 noncompetitive. And that might be realistic, because it really doesn't recoil much and is very accurate -- although unsupported automatic fire should be a lot less controllable.

[Fed]

Correct.

[Dr Spetz]

Yes. Part of the problem is that all guns in the game have a first-shot high recoil mechanic (except pistols?) which means the 5.56 and smaller rounds do not benefit from the inherent advantage in the ability to have rapid follow-up shots. Shooting an M4 at targets with rapid successive shots in real life is like a laser gun compared to a FAL or SCAR. If the first-shot high recoil was removed for 5.56 and below calibres then they might be better balanced.

[Kameradoktorn]

Originally posted by Dr. Spetz:

Yes. Part of the problem is that all guns in the game have a first-shot high recoil mechanic (except pistols?) which means the 5.56 and smaller rounds do not benefit from the inherent advantage in the ability to have rapid follow-up shots. Shooting an M4 at targets with rapid successive shots in real life is like a laser gun compared to a FAL or SCAR. If the first-shot high recoil was removed for 5.56 and below calibres then they might be better balanced.

This i agree with. I think this is why i feel the gali is still completely infun to use even it's so cheap, the first shots extreme recoil contra the rests very low just don't make it a good time to use.

[Jimmy]

Originally posted by Dr. Spetz:

Yes. Part of the problem is that all guns in the game have a first-shot high recoil mechanic (except pistols?) which means the 5.56 and smaller rounds do not benefit from the inherent advantage in the ability to have rapid follow-up shots. Shooting an M4 at targets with rapid successive shots in real life is like a laser gun compared to a FAL or SCAR. If the first-shot high recoil was removed for 5.56 and below calibres then they might be better balanced.

Sounds like a good idea

[-ExiLe`]

100% definitely not useless, full auto make 5.56 and lower caliber guns very potent. Full auto TTK on most of the guns is very fast, like 70ms on average. No it's not instant like the big boys, but still very very fast. The guy who spotted the other guy first or was able to line up his sights faster still wins the fight.

Then you also have the fact is that nobody is 100% accurate, not even the biggest pros. It means in a lot of cases your TTK with BR's is actually much slower when missing a shot in semi-auto. So other guns are definitely not useless.

Still BR's can be used a bit too much like AR's, especially with the extended mags. I think simply removing all the extended mags from BR's would create a better and clearer balance differentiation between AR's and BR's.

[nonex1stent]

Originally posted by ImTimK:

100% definitely not useless, full auto make 5.56 and lower caliber guns very potent. Full auto TTK on most of the guns is very fast, like 70ms on average. No it's not instant like the big boys, but still very very fast. The guy who spotted the other guy first or was able to line up his sights faster still wins the fight.

Then you also have the fact is that nobody is 100% accurate, not even the biggest pros. It means in a lot of cases your TTK with BR's is actually much slower when missing a shot in semi-auto. So other guns are definitely not useless.

Still BR's can be used a bit too much like AR's, especially with the extended mags. I think simply removing all the extended mags from BR's would create a better and clearer balance differentiation between AR's and BR's.

Full auto spraying at range should be nerfed. Short bursts can be extremely accurate (have some real life experience) but IME even with submachine guns at ~50 metres bursts over ~3 shots turn into suppressive fire real fast.

[-ExiLe`]

Originally posted by Dr. Spetz:

Yes. Part of the problem is that all guns in the game have a first-shot high recoil mechanic (except pistols?) which means the 5.56 and smaller rounds do not benefit from the inherent advantage in the ability to have rapid follow-up shots. Shooting an M4 at targets with rapid successive shots in real life is like a laser gun compared to a FAL or SCAR. If the first-shot high recoil was removed for 5.56 and below calibres then they might be better balanced.

Recently tested the recoil mechanic a little bit, but there doesn't seem to be a first shot multiplier actually. Though it does seem that there is recoil deceleration, don't quote on this but it seems that the longer you hold the trigger the less recoil/the more accurate you get. It's like this pattern: *____*____*___*___*__*__*_*_* . That's a bit exaggerated, but yea, the result is kinda the same? And it would probably be better if that was the other way around?

[Dr Spetz]

Originally posted by ImTimK:

Recently tested the recoil mechanic a little bit, but there doesn't seem to be a first shot multiplier actually. Though it does seem that there is recoil deceleration, don't quote on this but it seems that the longer you hold the trigger the less recoil/the more accurate you get. It's like this pattern: *____*____*___*___*__*__*_*_* . That's a bit exaggerated, but yea, the result is kinda the same? And it would probably be better if that was the other way around?

Yes, I think they're trying to replicate the fact that you might be surprised by the first shot as a novice shooter and have increased recoil as a result. However, these guys are not novice shooters and there's no reason why if you're aiming down the sight you should be surprised when the gun goes off!

[Jatimatic .50 BMG]

Otherwise crappy guns could be fixed with ap ammo or faster draw and ads times.

[nonex1stent]

Originally posted by Dr. Spetz:

Yes, I think they're trying to replicate the fact that you might be surprised by the first shot as a novice shooter and have increased recoil as a result. However, these guys are not novice shooters and there's no reason why if you're aiming down the sight you should be surprised when the gun goes off!

My thoughts exactly, experienced shooters won't have this problem.

[TORAZ]

You should learn basic physics or watch some auto-fire YT videos at least... Pro or not, first shot will still kick the most, because it moves from a complete standstill, later you can adapt and counter recoil better, this game makes absolute sense in this regard, also every gun is very potent, positioning is 90% of success in this game, only UZI or Grease gun feel like actual disadvantage in face to face PvP situations.

[Shuttle bus]

Honestly not, they're good guns, I like how they feel but they're not flawless all-rounders good or better than anything else in most situations. I'm guessing they're easy to use and rewarding, that's what makes them more commonplace options

[Dr Spetz]

Originally posted by Viktorianas:

You should learn basic physics or watch some auto-fire YT videos at least... Pro or not, first shot will still kick the most, because it moves from a complete standstill, later you can adapt and counter recoil better, this game makes absolute sense in this regard, also every gun is very potent, positioning is 90% of success in this game, only UZI or Grease gun feel like actual disadvantage in face to face PvP situations.

I've actually shot guns many times, including full auto. Side note: SCAR 7.62mm on full auto - totally ridiculous.

I'm quite confident all bullets fired cause the same recoil, minor variations in powder and bullet mass not withstanding.

The way this game simulates recoil is as if I'm blindfolded holding the rifle and then someone else pulls the trigger at a random time. Experienced shooters expect the recoil. I think if they eliminated this effect for 5.56/5.45 it would balance them relative to the FAL (which also has insane recoil FYI).

[zombiecrc]

DGL games are just FALs vs MK14s.
Yep BRs might be a little too good.