The Honey Badger sucks on multiple levels

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

First off the honey badger doesn't fit the setting since it's a fictional gun from CoD Ghosts. but functionally it's an Alpha AK reskin with lower velocity. Which makes no sense because assault rifles rely on their velocity to do damage so if you used a subsonic round all you have is a SMG that is a lot heavier and bulkier than it needs to be to accommodate an assault rifle round. Absolutely nothing about this gun makes sense and it seems like wasted effort when the MK18 was already in the game.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από florble mcfumperdink:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41 Is this a SMG?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 And is this a rifle?

As a sidenote I really want the PPSh-41 added because burp gun.

Seriously though the gun is so simple, open bolt blowback system. Also fun fact, the trigger on the PPSh is not what actually acts on the cartridge to fire it, in fact it is basically just a passive safety for the bolt that (when disabled) allows the gun to fire. Basically the trigger is attached to a tiny piece of steel which prevents the bolt from slamming forward and hitting the cartridge from ready position.

Effectively this means the gun could function if the trigger breaks, as the operator could just remove the broken trigger and the associated steel piece and then just pull the bolt all the way back then release it so it slams forward into the first bullet which (because it is a blowback system) allows the bolt to go to the back of the frame and then all the way forward again to set off yet another round. Basically, if the gun end-up triggerless you just pull the bolt to open position from closed then let it fly and just ride the lightning until the gun is either out of ammo or it jams.

that's called open bolt. It's pretty common on a lot of guns. It allows the gun to cool off faster as it holds open more area for air to move through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA22U7rh1UQ

[florble mcfumperdink]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από florble mcfumperdink:

As a sidenote I really want the PPSh-41 added because burp gun.

Seriously though the gun is so simple, open bolt blowback system. Also fun fact, the trigger on the PPSh is not what actually acts on the cartridge to fire it, in fact it is basically just a passive safety for the bolt that (when disabled) allows the gun to fire. Basically the trigger is attached to a tiny piece of steel which prevents the bolt from slamming forward and hitting the cartridge from ready position.

Effectively this means the gun could function if the trigger breaks, as the operator could just remove the broken trigger and the associated steel piece and then just pull the bolt all the way back then release it so it slams forward into the first bullet which (because it is a blowback system) allows the bolt to go to the back of the frame and then all the way forward again to set off yet another round. Basically, if the gun end-up triggerless you just pull the bolt to open position from closed then let it fly and just ride the lightning until the gun is either out of ammo or it jams.

that's called open bolt. It's pretty common on a lot of guns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA22U7rh1UQ

I know how common it is being that a gigantic ammount of SMGs from the second world war and forward, and also a number of LMGs use the mechanism, it just fascinates me because most modern open bolt guns (and even some of the older ones) have a lot of design purpose in mind. The PPSh and the Sten (and their associated equivalents from their era) are literally pissed off steel tubes with magazines and a stock.

Edit: Also the runaway M249 is funny.

[Democracy Enjoyer]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ;2570942392192491068:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

Imagine thinking if your rifle fires subsonic it's just 'an SMG' lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41 Is this a SMG?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 And is this a rifle?

What differentiates a rifle from a machine pistol is the caliber of the round, not the velocity of the round when fired. The PPSH fires a 7.62x25mm cartridge, which is a pistol cartridge (The Tokarev handgun uses this same round.) This makes the PPSh a machine pistol (or SMG.)

The AK 47 fires the 7.62x39mm cartridge, which is an intermediate rifle round, making the AK a rifle.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

Which makes no sense because assault rifles rely on their velocity to do damage so if you used a subsonic round all you have is a SMG that is a lot heavier and bulkier than it needs to be to accommodate an assault rifle round.

Using a subsonic round in a rifle doesn't make it an SMG. You'll want to use subsonic cartridges in suppressed rifles in order to 'silence' the rifle. This is why subsonic ammo is available, to enable suppressors to work.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ;2570942392192491068:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41 Is this a SMG?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 And is this a rifle?

What differentiates a rifle from a machine pistol is the caliber of the round, not the velocity of the round when fired. The PPSH fires a 7.62x25mm cartridge, which is a pistol cartridge (The Tokarev handgun uses this same round.) This makes the PPSh a machine pistol (or SMG.)

The AK 47 fires the 7.62x39mm cartridge, which is an intermediate rifle round, making the AK a rifle.

The 7.62 is the caliber, did you notice they both have the same caliber? In fact by your logic a 9x19 MP5 would be a rifle where a lower caliber 5.56x45mm M4A1 would be a SMG.

The entire distinction between a pistol and rifle caliber round is actually based around the volume of the case. A pistol caliber will have a shorter case so it's more compact, wheras a rifle round will have a longer case that has more volume for propellant. The thing is that a .300 blackout (7.62x35mm) subsonic round delivers similar energy on target as a subsonic pistol round such as a .45 ACP (11.43x23mm)

When you want to make a subsonic rifle round you end up having to leave out most of the propellant as empty space, so you have to design a more complex firearm than you would need for a pistol caliber so it can extract the longer cartridge, feed it etc. That's why they don't make rifle caliber firearms that have a magazine in the grip like the Uzi does.

It's also why in reality the honey badger and .300 blackout are crap, along with the AS VAL and any other rifle designed to be used with subsonic ammunition.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ;2570942392192491068:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41 Is this a SMG?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 And is this a rifle?

What differentiates a rifle from a machine pistol is the caliber of the round, not the velocity of the round when fired. The PPSH fires a 7.62x25mm cartridge, which is a pistol cartridge (The Tokarev handgun uses this same round.) This makes the PPSh a machine pistol (or SMG.)

The AK 47 fires the 7.62x39mm cartridge, which is an intermediate rifle round, making the AK a rifle.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

Which makes no sense because assault rifles rely on their velocity to do damage so if you used a subsonic round all you have is a SMG that is a lot heavier and bulkier than it needs to be to accommodate an assault rifle round.

Using a subsonic round in a rifle doesn't make it an SMG. You'll want to use subsonic cartridges in suppressed rifles in order to 'silence' the rifle. This is why subsonic ammo is available, to enable suppressors to work.

In reality soldiers use suppressors with supersonic ammunition in actual combat conditions. The suppressor reduces audio and visual signatures even if it's still very loud which makes it harder for someone over medium to long range to identify where the shot is coming from since they're only hearing the bullet's shock wave from going supersonic.

The movies and video games are the ones showing off "quiet" suppressors as they're of basically no military value in reality.

[Democracy Enjoyer]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

The 7.62 is the caliber, did you notice they both have the same caliber? In fact by your logic a 9x19 MP5 would be a rifle where a lower caliber 5.56x45mm M4A1 would be a SMG.
[/quote]

Did *you* notice the case length? x39 and x25 is a significant reduction in powder, therefore power. That is what makes it a pistol caliber.

A 9x19mm pistol cartridge would not make an MP5 a rifle because the numbers are bigger (this is your understanding, which is wrong.) That's not how this works. 5.56x45mm has the longer case, the more powder, the more power.

According to you, the AK 74 could be a pistol caliber because it's 5.45x39, which is smaller than 7.62. You think the diameter of the projectile is what defines a pistol from a rifle caliber. Again, your original statement of 'subsonic rifle ammo (300blk) basically makes it an SMG' is a pants on head silly and factually wrong statement.

Unless you weren't being literal and were being hyperbolic.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

The entire distinction between a pistol and rifle caliber round is actually based around the volume of the case. A pistol caliber will have a shorter case so it's more compact, wheras a rifle round will have a longer case that has more volume for propellant. The thing is that a .300 blackout (7.62x35mm) subsonic round delivers similar energy on target as a subsonic pistol round such as a .45 ACP (11.43x23mm)

I already said this. A longer case allows for more volume, so you're beginning to catch on, but not quite there yet.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

When you want to make a subsonic rifle round you end up having to leave out most of the propellant as empty space, so you have to design a more complex firearm than you would need for a pistol caliber so it can extract the longer cartridge, feed it etc. That's why they don't make rifle caliber firearms that have a magazine in the grip like the Uzi does.

It's also why in reality the honey badger and .300 blackout are crap, along with the AS VAL and any other rifle designed to be used with subsonic ammunition.

What? Rifle caliber guns that have a magazine in the grip like an Uzi does? What are you talking about? What does that have to do with the original point of you not knowing what makes an SMG and SMG?

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

In reality soldiers use suppressors with supersonic ammunition in actual combat conditions. The suppressor reduces audio and visual signatures even if it's still very loud which makes it harder for someone over medium to long range to identify where the shot is coming from since they're only hearing the bullet's shock wave from going supersonic.

The movies and video games are the ones showing off "quiet" suppressors as they're of basically no military value in reality.

Visual signatures? You mean muzzle flash? Something hugely reduced by flash hiders and the fact we've used smokeless ammo for a century?

You have no idea what you're talking about and it shows.

The USMC as of last year is equipping many marine units with suppressed rifles simply because it makes communication easier. Using quieter rifles in a platoon sized fire fight means easier communication, less screaming over gunfire, not to mention it's easier on the ears (though still will damage unprotected ears.)

300blk isn't worthless as you suggest, and it's been designed for a particular use.

edit: I didn't see where you mentioned a subsonic .300blk has similar energy to a .45 acp. lol you really are embarrassing yourself.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

The 7.62 is the caliber, did you notice they both have the same caliber? In fact by your logic a 9x19 MP5 would be a rifle where a lower caliber 5.56x45mm M4A1 would be a SMG.

Did *you* notice the case length? x39 and x25 is a significant reduction in powder, therefore power. That is what makes it a pistol caliber.

A 9x19mm pistol cartridge would not make an MP5 a rifle because the numbers are bigger (this is your understanding, which is wrong.) That's not how this works. 5.56x45mm has the longer case, the more powder, the more power.

.300 blackout is available in standard pressure, not just subsonic.

So your first line there you argue that the distinction between pistol and rifle caliber is based off the amount of powder behind the bullet. Meaning that by your definition the honey badger in this game (7.62x35mm) would be a SMG

Also your last line about "standard pressure" is a red herring. Since there is no super sonic .300 blackout in this game. The Honey Badger has a muzzle velocity of 256m/s in game which is subsonic. Therefore by your definition of an SMG as a pistol caliber spitting rifle it's a SMG.

[Democracy Enjoyer]

I'm sorry you're mad about a gun you don't have to use if you don't want to.

It kills folks plenty dead just fine for me. I don't see what the big deal is.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

Visual signatures? You mean muzzle flash? Something hugely reduced by flash hiders and the fact we've used smokeless ammo for a century?

You have no idea what you're talking about and it shows.

The USMC as of last year is equipping many marine units with suppressed rifles simply because it makes communication easier. Using quieter rifles in a platoon sized fire fight means easier communication, less screaming over gunfire, not to mention it's easier on the ears (though still will damage unprotected ears.)

300blk isn't worthless as you suggest, and it's been designed for a particular use.

edit: I didn't see where you mentioned a subsonic .300blk has similar energy to a .45 acp. lol you really are embarrassing yourself.

Visual Signatures includes muzzle gasses venting and disturbing the ground around the shooter. smokeless powder isn't literally smokeless. It's reduced smoke compared to black poweder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iZhRUMQPY

Here's a firearm showing some of that visual disturbance I was talking about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Yuur1t0ss

here's the same firearm with a suppressor reducing the signature dramatically.

Also a flash hider is an informal term for a flash suppressor, which is a type of suppressor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD7pd03L43k

Also using a flash suppressor doesn't magically eliminate muzzle flash. Especially on shorter barreled rifles.

The US military has standardized active headsets that are designed to allow soldiers to speak to one another over intercoms while also increasing the hearing threshold by over 10 times (you'd be physically injured by how loud whatever you're hearing was before they'd overwhelm your headset). https://www.bose.com/en_us/military/triport_tactical_headset_s2.html

A human screaming directly into your ear would be about 110 decibels. Where a suppressed M4A1 gunshot would be 130 decibels. https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a24055/marines-infantrymen-silencers/#:~:text=Advanced%20Armament%20Company%2C%20a%20military,about%20that%20of%20a%20jackhammer.

Keep in mind decibels scale exponentially rather than linearly so that is many times louder. not 30% louder.

So using a suppressor wouldn't improve communications ability at all in any way that hasn't been addressed through the use of hearing protection already.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

I'm sorry you're mad about a gun you don't have to use if you don't want to.

It kills folks plenty dead just fine for me. I don't see what the big deal is.

It's a bit late to try and run away now. I already demolished your arguments thoroughly.

Next time don't try to talk down to an actual soldier about war?

[NickySins]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από H A R D K V A § §:

I'm sorry you're mad about a gun you don't have to use if you don't want to.

It kills folks plenty dead just fine for me. I don't see what the big deal is.

It's a bit late to try and run away now. I already demolished your arguments thoroughly.

Next time don't try to talk down to an actual soldier about war?

Oh ♥♥♥♥, we have the Internet Special Forces Operator here

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Also .300 blackout is worthless. The only feasible application for it is for civilian shooters who reload their own ammunition. Because the .300 blackout is designed to use 5.56 accessories in theory you could rework damaged 5.56/223 brass into .300 brass and since it's designed to use magnum pistol propellant you could use a separate supply of gunpowder intended for revolvers or desert eagles to reload it with instead of using rifle powder.

In terms of practical military applications there's absolutely nothing. .300 is inferior to 5.56 in every way. Hence why no military uses it.

[Landsknecht und Deutscher Ritter]

Also as a final note the AK47 was classified as a SMG by the Soviet Armed forces because they considered its intermediate caliber round to be closer to a pistol than a rifle. It wasn't until the introduction of the AK74 with the 5.45x39mm cartridge that has a higher velocity closer to a full sized rifle round like the 7.62x54r that they started calling the AK74 a rifle. Hence why the official designation of the AK47 is.

Automatic Kalashnikov

And the AK74 is

Automatic Rifle Kalashnikov 1974

so the world's most common assault rifle is considered a SMG by its creator.

[WelcomeToTheShitshow]

The Honey Badger is not a fictional rifle you can buy it for about 3000 USD from Q.
https://www.liveqordie.com/products/honey-badger-by-q/

And in game it does not suck. In CQB its really effective. At longer ranges its not as good. It also drops pretty hard at longer ranges.
But that's what .300 BLK is designed for.

Also the AS VAL is really nice in CQB too. I like the AS VAL more on longer ranges than the Honey Badger too.

[WelcomeToTheShitshow]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Graufuchs:

Also .300 blackout is worthless. The only feasible application for it is for civilian shooters who reload their own ammunition. Because the .300 blackout is designed to use 5.56 accessories in theory you could rework damaged 5.56/223 brass into .300 brass and since it's designed to use magnum pistol propellant you could use a separate supply of gunpowder intended for revolvers or desert eagles to reload it with instead of using rifle powder.

In terms of practical military applications there's absolutely nothing. .300 is inferior to 5.56 in every way. Hence why no military uses it.

.300 BLK was designed for short range engagements. It's supposed to deliver more stopping power at those ranges than 5.56.

There are SF who use .300 BLK. I know that the UK military uses .300 BLK. I also read that a Dutch SF group uses Sig MCX in .300 BLK.

Edit: Links
Dutch SF: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/09/dutch-marsof-officially-purchase-300-blk-sig-mcx-rifles/

UK Military ammo contract for .300 BLK
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:273296-2017:TEXT:EN:HTML