HARDCORE MODE.

[Kosm1cznY]

Can you at least add into hardcore mode different recoil system that would be believable instead of this pure arcade one where reticle/ironsight is nasty glued to character eyeball? It always stay on screen center. It gives unbelievable and arcade feel.
I play daily other FPS game that is arcade and it have way better recoil system that gives more believable and more realistic feel while on full auto. It is ridiculous that Insurgency that is called by most as "realistic" FPS while it in most parts is just arcade like Battlefield.
Insurgency as stated try to have realistic weapon mechanics and it in most parts have cool weapn mechanics that are close to real life. But shooting is sadly arcade. Instead of camera shaking like mad it should be more stable and weapon should shake independent to camera/character eye ball and this should be recoil mechanics instead of camera/character eye based recoil. There is no human on this earth that could focus his eye on a reticle or at the ironsight while full auto. Even single shoot would he hard. And I am not talking about small calibers! Prove me wrong!
Again even arcade games like Killing Floor 2 have weapon recoil more accurate to what we can experience in real life!!!!
This is a shame for game that try to have weapon realistic behaviour! But fail miserably xD
So at least implement what I say in hardcore mode!!! Or some mutator/option/setting for custom servers so admin could turn it on or off! Would be really great. More people would be happy this way!!!

Another thing is soundless movement. Slowest movement makes no sound. This is unrealistic and annoying when AI enemy in coop can move past me and make no sound at all. There should be very slight sound of footsteps. I hate they copied this arcade CS in this department. Again remove this GOD NINJA soundless movement in hardcore mode.

[Kosm1cznY]

I know this game and I own it! This is not subject here so read with understanding.

[Favkis Nexerade]

https://youtu.be/ioIJueIF-wg 0:48

believable recoil is when you can actually hit targets at 100 meters in full auto, rather than what we have now where you can't hit ♥♥♥♥ with burst

[LolMongolia]

Originally posted by Favkis Nexerade:

https://youtu.be/ioIJueIF-wg 0:48

believable recoil is when you can actually hit targets at 100 meters in full auto, rather than what we have now where you can't hit ♥♥♥♥ with burst

This is with an optimal stance however and no fatigue/other factors that play into effect during combat. Firing at a range is significantly different than when you're entering into something stressful or pressuring and have just ran a fair bit with full kit or are otherwise exhausted on muscles or hydration.

I've noticed firing full auto becomes significantly more difficult in practice than at the range if you've just performed only a few relocations or sprints, and particularly when you feel slight stress from the other end shooting back.

On a 7.62x39 rifle I can reasonably get a 2-round burst accurately to hit on a target up to 100-150 metres if I'm firing absolutely optimally, but in actual practice the less than optimal or instant stances + other factors make it only effective up to maybe 30m, if even that. Perhaps Sandstorm could implement something like you have less recoil the less your character is exhausted and the longer he's staid still to assume an absolutely optimal firing stance.

[=TAC= Stuermer]

I wished you could see the targets ;)

[Favkis Nexerade]

Originally posted by Vodkasekoitus:

Originally posted by Favkis Nexerade:

https://youtu.be/ioIJueIF-wg 0:48

believable recoil is when you can actually hit targets at 100 meters in full auto, rather than what we have now where you can't hit ♥♥♥♥ with burst

This is with an optimal stance however and no fatigue/other factors that play into effect during combat. Firing at a range is significantly different than when you're entering into something stressful or pressuring and have just ran a fair bit with full kit or are otherwise exhausted on muscles or hydration.

I've noticed firing full auto becomes significantly more difficult in practice than at the range if you've just performed only a few relocations or sprints, and particularly when you feel slight stress from the other end shooting back.

On a 7.62x39 rifle I can reasonably get a 2-round burst accurately to hit on a target up to 100-150 metres if I'm firing absolutely optimally, but in actual practice the less than optimal or instant stances + other factors make it only effective up to maybe 30m, if even that. Perhaps Sandstorm could implement something like you have less recoil the less your character is exhausted and the longer he's staid still to assume an absolutely optimal firing stance.

that's part of their job and why they have trainings, to be able to run 10 km and shoot normally

[Kosm1cznY]

Killing Floor 2 have more fun recoil that is hard but controlable and believable AND fun!
And it is arcade game so it is funny that such game have it more true to real life than game that try to be more or less combat sim xD

In insurgency when whole camera(HEAD/EYE) is shaking like mad along with weapon that is stiff glued to it. It is really unnatural feel.

It is hard to controll what we see and controll recoil at the same time. No such issue in for example Killing Floor 2 where camera/eye/head shake is still present but small enough to be not distracting like hell of Insurgency camera recoil.

Maybe most casual players are used to such recoil mechanics because they played games like Battlefield in which I noticed watching YT videos that acts almost the same. I really dont have an idea. But on some videos I noticed that even BATTLEFIELD 5 have just minimal inndependent to camera weapon recoil xD So Insurgency is even worse that arcade game xD
WATCH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB1BB3wqrxg

In Insurgency weapon is PERFECTLY glued to head/eye while having weapon recoil.
For me it is hard to imagine that such dev team that try to make different FPS game from other and try to be more real life representation of firearms compared to all other First Person Shooters used such weird and unnatural weapon recoil mechanics.
Watch this to see how bad Insurgency is in terms of weapon recoil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU170gDchOQ
Look how straight like he get from aim down the sight recoil!
As I said KF2 have it damn more realistic!!!!!! xD

Very similar weapon gameplay to Insurgency is in Rising Storm/RS Vietnam and they did not make such arcade choice. Still not perfect imo but at least ironsight/reticle is not glued perfectly to player character head!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Vv_xCMe2Q
Good example at 1:05 It looks good as for base weapon recoil while aiming down the sight.
But camera/head is overreacting way to much.

So I thought at least in Hardcore mode it would be cool to have more believable recoil system. DEVs should play Killing Floor 2 to learn how to do it. Or at least see RO:RS

[LolMongolia]

Originally posted by Favkis Nexerade:

that's part of their job and why they have trainings, to be able to run 10 km and shoot normally

Yes, and I was saying even with training that doesn't make it perfect. No one can do that even with training. We've had exercises for this performance, particularly for long-distance operations, but even the most fit will have trouble getting their normal accuracy levels after prolonged combat. You'll see a very clear detriment between the first day of a combat exercise and day 13.

One very clear example I can remember is during the march for the marine beret, people managed to hit targets perfectly fine in a direct engagement test, the test later reappeared near the end of it after 28 hours, and it required multiple retries that time. This same effect was seen even on the ones who had years of experience who needed to update their beret status. And these are not the average joe either. I myself struggled to fire shots more than once every 2 seconds.

[Rai]

Originally posted by trollbreeder:

arma 3

[Trobby]

Arma 3

[Kosm1cznY]

Best example on how poor and dumb recoil works in this game is using heavy machineguns. And this fire delay is extra annoying on top of poor recoil system. It is forced to be only placed on tripod.

[Rai]

Originally posted by Coϟm1c gAmΣr:

Best example on how poor and dumb recoil works in this game is using heavy machineguns. And this fire delay is extra annoying on top of poor recoil system. It is forced to be only placed on tripod.

I mean, have you ever tried firing a machine gun that was not stabilized by some sort of bipod?

[drunkdriver29]

Originally posted by Vodkasekoitus:

Perhaps Sandstorm could implement something like you have less recoil the less your character is exhausted and the longer he's staid still to assume an absolutely optimal firing stance.

imagine trying to buff sitting in corners lol

[Kosm1cznY]

Originally posted by LANCERZz:

I mean, have you ever tried firing a machine gun that was not stabilized by some sort of bipod?

Watch videos about it on YT. Plenty of those. Imagine that people shooring it without tripod or support it on something was not pumped like rambo. Normal everyday mo** :)
And recoil was not near insane as it is in Insurgency S

Now there is something called physics. After recoil weapon is lifted up and stays this way while in real life gravity help a lot to lower down weapon after recoil. In insurgency I must drag my mouse down for way to long to stabilize heavy recoil weapon. Also what I mentioned and shown in video example Insurgency have most stupid recoil system. While aiming down the sight recoil is going straight up and on the wall we see straight bullet pattern xD It is beyond ridiculous. Tried myself on few guns and I lold.

[Rai]

As a former USMC armorer I can 100% guarantee that the videos you watched were not filmed during combat. yeah sure, you can fire a machine gun without it being mounted. that doesn't mean you'll hit anything that you're shooting at. You certainly won't be sprinting around and bringing it up to eye level constantly to aim down the sights. Machine guns are heavy, defensive weapons. A SAW, which is considered a "light" machine gun, weighs close to 17 pounds (22 with ammo); that is not something you're going to be running around and clearing rooms with.

[Kosm1cznY]

Originally posted by LANCERZz:

As a former USMC armorer I can 100% guarantee that the videos you watched were not filmed during combat. yeah sure, you can fire a machine gun without it being mounted. that doesn't mean you'll hit anything that you're shooting at. You certainly won't be sprinting around and bringing it up to eye level constantly to aim down the sights. Machine guns are heavy, defensive weapons. A SAW, which is considered a "light" machine gun, weighs close to 17 pounds (22 with ammo); that is not something you're going to be running around and clearing rooms with.

I agree! Really. You are right. SAW is not like M4 and will not be. As you said it is heavy so it strains arms to much if someone would want to use it as M4

But in Insurgency S it is way to overdone in recoil. Also this wepon class in I:S have weird trigger delay on top of overpowered recoil.

Also did you notice that all weapons have weird very arcade recoils system while ADTS? You can make straight like up on wall shooting full auto. There is not even horizontall recoil. They really focused on making it very easy to controll. Just drag mouse down xD

As I mentioned even arcade Killing Floor have more realistic recoil system. Or at least believable :)

Extra question. What weapons you used in combat. And did you shoot at real person?