Bloodseeker is dead

[Neo]

Ive commented in a few posts but ♥♥♥♥ me, this rework has literally vanquished bloodseeker. Bloodseeker has went from a risk-reward hero to a hero who is now more viable as a pos 4/5. I won't get into details as ive said before, ive commented and stated my views on multiple discussions.

If you dont believe me look at dota 2 trends for ranked. In every league ranging from herald to divine, bloodseeker sat comfortably around the 5th ranked hero. This has now been changed and bloodseeker is now at rank 119. He is at the bottom of the trends. How the ♥♥♥♥ does a hero go from rank 5 to rank 119 after one patch? If that isnt enough evidence then i suggest playing him in demo or in a match and feel how weak he has became. His q has practically became useless and thirst has been nerfed like ♥♥♥♥. This is ridiculous who play tests this ♥♥♥♥ and goes, 'damn bloodseeker is ♥♥♥♥, but hey he's now got a passive lifesteal, lets launch it!' Actually you know what after saying that in my head, it sounds exactly like something volvo would do.

[STOUT SHAKO FOR 2 REFINED]

They just rever BS to his old skills set what are you talking about?

[TalibanTechie]

He's a new dota player. It's called Meta, every hero gets to have their chance at meta.

[Neo]

Originally posted by Uter36:

They just rever BS to his old skills set what are you talking about?

you know what ♥♥♥♥ it ill dissect it 1 by 1.

Firstly bloodrage -
--> bloodrage previously amplified ALL output damage by 24%ish and amplified ALL incoming damage by 26%ish maxed.
--> bloodrage had previously given a percentage of lifesteal to the target if they killed a mob or a unit
--> bloodrage would also give bloodseeker a passive heal if placed on an enemy hero/creep and the enemy died
- Bloodrage was a risk-reward ability that would punish bloodseeker for using it carelessly with amplified damage recieved but reward him for using it smart and effectively with amplified damage given out and regaining health

-Bloodrage currently =
--> bloodrage offers an increased attack-speed of 140 / lasts 8 seconds and drains 3% max health per second - compare this ♥♥♥♥ to clinkz new strafe ability which increases attack speed by 200ish for 6 seconds and clinkz doesnt get lifedrained!
--> bloodrage now only amplifies SPELL damage by 24% - this is an undeniable nerf as only spell damage is amplified compared to previous ALL damage before the patch.
- Bloodrage as i stated has now become useless for bloodseeker as it amplifies spell damage even though bloodseeker only has blood rite = better used amplying on casters to increase damage. This means that one of bloodseekers abilities is better when applied not on bloodseeker himself but on different heroes - this doesnt sound like a support ability to you?

2nd = thirst
--> thirst used to provide bloodseeker with increased attack speed which would increase depending on enemies health
--> used to provide bloodseeker increased movement speed which would increase depending on enemies health
--> would also provide vision of enemies if their health dropped below 25%
- thirst would punish enemies for not understanding that their low health in the lane buffed bloodseeker and would provide bloodseeker an opportunity to gank if they did not act quickly.
Thirst would also allow bloodseeker to be able to 1v1 and solo gank much more efficiently as the lower the targets health got the more of a danger bloodseeker would become.

Thirst currently =
--> no longer provides bloodseeker with increased attack speed depending on enemy teams health = bloodseekers 1v1 potential has been weakened and his ganking ability has also been nerfed. Thirst gave bloodseeker an extreme buff to attack speed and would give him insane attack speed if the entire enemy team was injured. Instead that has been removed and has turned into bloodrage however now it drains insane life and it is capped and cant increase bloodseekers attack speed higher than 140.
--> Thirst now provides bloodseeker with a passive where every time a mob dies 15% of that mobs health is given back to him as a heal - sounds good on paper right? until you realise that a majority of mobs sit between 300-400 health (not including ancients) = 45-60 health is given back as a heal ---> early game bloodseeker once he has maxed thrist usually is at 1200 health = 20 mobs need to die to be able to heal back to full health --- this is a nerf because bloodrage previously healed bloodseeker a percentage of HIS health back whenever he got a last hit on a mob. Now bloodseeker needs to sit within range of mobs to be able to heal himself. This is extremely hard to do whenever you are in the lane and are being pressured by enemy heroes who do around a base attack damage average of 50-70 = bloodseeker heals are offset by right click damage --- this means that 20 mobs then increases to 40 mobs as you have to fight between staying near creeps to get life and getting out of range of enemies that are harassing you (this also doesnt include spell damage which usually does around and upward of 100 damage base level - example = Lion spike base level does 80 --> max level does 260)

Now on paper it may sound good, however once you actually begin doing some math and begin actually analysing the stats you realise that this was a heavy nerf disguised as a 'rework'.

In summary = bloodrage does more harm to bloodseeker than good as w/o heals 24% of max health is gone within 8 seconds it is also actually much better as a support spell (i mean ffs cmon he was played as a carry and now hes got a spell thats better for supporting with????)

-bloodrage damage amp changed from ALL to SPELL amp

-Thirst now provides passive heal BUT the damage that bloodseeker actually recieves in the lane and from enemies offsets this heal and means that bloodseeker now has a useless passive heal unless he is jungling (even though jungling is dead XD)

basically bloodseeker has went from a risk-reward hero who would punish overconfident heroes and would also be punished for being overconfident himself to a useless hero who is actually more viable as a support rather than a carry

After all that if you still dont believe me, i ask you this, just try out his new abilities in a match or two and maybe then youll actually gain the understanding of how far bloodseeker has fallen and how trash he is that he has now dropped to the lowest hero win rate with an average of 30-40% win rate between the different ranked leagues.

Valve if your reading this please fix this cancer - i understand a nerf but gaben practically just used the ban hammer on bloodseeker and sent him to his death.

Bloodseeker only wanted to please the flayed twins :C

[existential transcendence]

Originally posted by TalibanTechie:

He's a new dota player. It's called Meta, every hero gets to have their chance at meta.

current bs is actually dead. Previous BS winrate was ~52%, now its 40% (-12.5%) and i think its not the minimal.

[Neo]

Originally posted by TalibanTechie:

He's a new dota player. It's called Meta, every hero gets to have their chance at meta.

i understand meta bro but cmon how tf does bloodseeker drop from 50% win rate to an average of 30% and no one bats an eye or complains? you cant argue with the statistics man it doesnt make sense. I agree he needed a nerf but cmon

[Neo]

Originally posted by The_Loppa:

Originally posted by TalibanTechie:

He's a new dota player. It's called Meta, every hero gets to have their chance at meta.

current bs is actually dead. Previous BS winrate was ~52%, now its 40% (-12.5%) and i think its not the minimal.

thank you man someone is actually checking out the stats! ;)

[existential transcendence]

Originally posted by Neo:

Originally posted by The_Loppa:

current bs is actually dead. Previous BS winrate was ~52%, now its 40% (-12.5%) and i think its not the minimal.

thank you man someone is actually checking out the stats! ;3

remember the time on garena and iccup (also Source1 old dota 2012-2013) when BS was something like now (1st skill costs 20mp, increas phys damage, deal 20dmg/sec and silence target, 2nd was current one, 3th gives attack dmg and MS and 4th deal 150/200/250 instant damage and gives debuff) BS was simple and weakness, after some buffs and reworks there was previous BS, that was harder to play but much more stronger.

[Neo]

Originally posted by The_Loppa:

Originally posted by Neo:

thank you man someone is actually checking out the stats! ;3

remember the time on garena and iccup (also Source1 old dota 2012-2013) when BS was something like now (1st skill costs 20mp, increas phys damage, deal 20dmg/sec and silence target, 2nd was current one, 3th gives attack dmg and MS and 4th deal 150/200/250 instant damage and gives debuff) BS was simple and weakness, after some buffs and reworks there was previous BS, that was harder to play but much more stronger.

This is what I mean though he was stronger and he probably needed a nerf but this rework has killed him. The funny thing is people love complaining about how ez bs is but don’t seem to actually understand his kit and how to counter him - it’s like Anti mage he becomes a super tank late game but needs to be countered or he will wipe game

People always want to choose the easy option and call it broke rather than learn to counter

[existential transcendence]

Originally posted by Neo:

Originally posted by The_Loppa:

remember the time on garena and iccup (also Source1 old dota 2012-2013) when BS was something like now (1st skill costs 20mp, increas phys damage, deal 20dmg/sec and silence target, 2nd was current one, 3th gives attack dmg and MS and 4th deal 150/200/250 instant damage and gives debuff) BS was simple and weakness, after some buffs and reworks there was previous BS, that was harder to play but much more stronger.

This is what I mean though he was stronger and he probably needed a nerf but this rework has killed him. The funny thing is people love complaining about how ez bs is but don’t seem to actually understand his kit and how to counter him - it’s like Anti mage he becomes a super tank late game but needs to be countered or he will wipe game

People always want to choose the easy option and call it broke rather than learn to counter

im agree, but unkillable under ult Lone Druid really needs to get skills back)

[Amogus]

Wow, a meta change that changes the play style of a hero will see a temporary drop in win rate until people realize how to play him properly again. What an unbelievable thing.

Seriously though, this is a joke right? BS no longer has to blood rage himself to gain health on kill, as it becomes a passive ability that doesn't come at a cost of taking more damage. Since you don't have to use blood rage to get the health gain anymore, you don't have to be extremely vulnerable to a gank while using it. Having a portion of your health taken per second is basically the same thing as being 20-30% more vulnerable to damage, so that change is basically negligible.

On top of that, instead of the old thirst which only granted up to 75 bonus attack speed, now blood rage gives a guaranteed 140 attack speed (max level of course). That means that he no longer has to rely on people being at low health to get his attack bonus. He can start a fight (with everybody at max health) and get a flat 140 bonus attack speed as opposed to the 75 ONLY if the enemy hero's health was low.

I mean, even his level 1 blood rage gives close to the same attack speed bonus as old thirst at MAX level. That means, AT LEVEL 3, you can have permanent health on kill (thirst level 1) AND an ability that will give you 80 bonus attack damage at the cost of some HP per second (blood rage level 2).

So ultimately, you're just mad that the meta changed and you can't adapt. His blood rage has made his overall attack speed gain due to abilities HIGHER, the damage taken due to using blood rage is basically the same, and he has passive health on kill/nearby death that doesn't require him to make himself vulnerable to do so. You can complain all you want about his thirst ability, but if he kills a pudge with 10-15 flesh heap stacks, he basically gets his whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ health bar back. Your posts/reply basically only talks about creeps, which is being ignorant of how team fights work.

TL;DR

Bloodseeker changes:

+ Attack speed bonus doubled and moved to blood rage
+ Blood rage no longer stalls movement on cast
+ Health on kill changed to health on kill/nearby death and always active
+/- Health on kill is weaker against low HP units, but massively buffed on high HP units
~ Blood rage drains max health per second instead of increasing damage vulnerability

[Neo]

Originally posted by  Sir_Mossy :

Wow, a meta change that changes the play style of a hero will see a temporary drop in win rate until people realize how to play him properly again. What an unbelievable thing.

Seriously though, this is a joke right? BS no longer has to blood rage himself to gain health on kill, as it becomes a passive ability that doesn't come at a cost of taking more damage. Since you don't have to use blood rage to get the health gain anymore, you don't have to be extremely vulnerable to a gank while using it. Having a portion of your health taken per second is basically the same thing as being 20-30% more vulnerable to damage, so that change is basically negligible.

On top of that, instead of the old thirst which only granted up to 75 bonus attack speed, now blood rage gives a guaranteed 140 attack speed (max level of course). That means that he no longer has to rely on people being at low health to get his attack bonus. He can start a fight (with everybody at max health) and get a flat 140 bonus attack speed as opposed to the 75 ONLY if the enemy hero's health was low.

I mean, even his level 1 blood rage gives close to the same attack speed bonus as old thirst at MAX level. That means, AT LEVEL 3, you can have permanent health on kill AND an ability that will give you 80 bonus attack damage at the cost of some HP per second.

So ultimately, you're just mad that the meta changed and you can't adapt. His blood rage has made his overall attack speed gain due to abilities HIGHER, the damage taken due to using blood rage is basically the same, and he has passive health on kill/nearby death that doesn't require him to make himself vulnerable to do so. You can complain all you want about his thirst ability, but if he kills a pudge with 10-15 flesh heap stacks, be basically gets his whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ health bar back.

TL;DR

Bloodseeker changes:

+ Attack speed bonus doubled and added to blood rage
+ Blood rage no longer stalls movement on cast
+ Health on kill changed to health on kill/nearby death and always active
- Blood rage drains max health per second instead of increasing damage vulnerability

i already summarised at the end of my wall of text the changes made and ive done the calculations as well and there is a difference between bloodseeker losing 3% of max life per second and amplifying the damage that he recieves

As i said i think he needed a nerf but this is to the extreme people would rather call a hero op than learn how to counter said hero

[existential transcendence]

>Wow, a meta change that changes the play style of a hero will see a temporary drop in win rate until people realize how to play him properly again. What an unbelievable thing.
-40% are close to record winrate.

>BS no longer has to blood rage himself to gain health on killas it becomes a passive ability that doesn't come at a cost of taking more damage
-also u cant heal your teammate by using bloodrage on him.

>Since you don't have to use blood rage to get the health gain anymore, you don't have to be extremely vulnerable to a gank while using it.
-but you need to upgrade this skill to have good heal.

>Having a portion of your health taken per second is basically the same thing as being 20-30% more vulnerable to damage.
-Not even you farm creeps.

>On top of that, instead of the old thirst which only granted up to 75 bonus attack speed, now blood rage gives a guaranteed 140 attack speed (max level of course).
-And half to teammates. Also if enemy have 2+ low hp heroes you dont get additional AS per hero, as this was.

>That means that he no longer has to rely on people being at low health to get his attack bonus. He can start a fight (with everybody at max health) and get a flat 140 bonus attack speed as opposed to the 75 ONLY if the enemy hero's health was low.
-and waste 24% of hp only by using bloodrage on himself)

>I mean, even his level 1 blood rage gives close to the same attack speed bonus as old thirst at MAX level. That means, AT LEVEL 3, you can have permanent health on kill AND an ability that will give you 80 bonus attack damage at the cost of some HP per second.
-keep in hand that new bloodrage costs 40mp and you cant use it on cd, not every bs like to buy eul and aghanim on first slots.

>So ultimately, you're just mad that the meta changed and you can't adapt. His blood rage has made his overall attack speed gain due to abilities HIGHER, the damage taken due to using blood rage is basically the same, and he has passive health on kill/nearby death that doesn't require him to make himself vulnerable to do so. You can complain all you want about his thirst ability, but if he kills a pudge with 10-15 flesh heap stacks, be basically gets his whole ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ health bar back.
-Yes, this is stupid nerf.

Bloodseeker changes:

+ Attack speed bonus doubled and added to blood rage
+ Blood rage no longer stalls movement on cast
+ Health on kill changed to health on kill/nearby death and always active
- Blood rage drains max health per second instead of increasing damage vulnerability

-Bloodrage cannot be spammed by cd
-You cant heal teammate by taking him buff
-you dont have outcoming damage amplify
-you dont have attack buff stacks for every enemy hero

[Lunacy]

Bloodseeker had zero risk before what are you talking about
you just run up to low health enemies for easy kills
free damage and lifesteal buff
giant silence damage circle they can't get out of unless they have something like force staff
and ult makes it so they can't disengage or else they die

[existential transcendence]

also seeker was perfecr vs meepo because each meepo calculated as a hero

[Neo]

Originally posted by Lunacy:

Bloodseeker had zero risk before what are you talking about
you just run up to low health enemies for easy kills
free damage and lifesteal buff
giant silence damage circle they can't get out of unless they have something like force staff
and ult makes it so they can't disengage or else they die

You dont seem to understand bloodseeker and his weaknesses and his strengths bloodseeker is about punishing overconfident players or players that try and escape after team fights or ganks

I could say that AM is op and ez because he becomes ridiculous late game but you counter him by stopping farm - bloodseeker weakness is that he falls off mid game he cant 1v1 carries like spectre or sven and he needs to end mid game or he becomes useless

The fact you dont realise this makes it sound like you dont know how bloodseeker works and only see him ganking you