Discussion: Selling moves

[Retro]

This was a topic of discussion on twitch today - so give them ideas what they can improve on when it comes to selling. The Devs want it.

[RatedDrew]

Id like to see them sell individual limbs like old no mercy. Wear down the arm and they show its hurt when lets you know its time to slap on a armbar or kimora. wear down the neck and they start favoring it and you know its time to hit a brainbuster or whatever finisher. same leg have them moving slower maybe disable run for a short period of time. have some heavy slams disabled for a short period of time to sell the punishment of the match. forcing the player to find another way to work until they have the strengh to do their move.

[Excalibunny]

I agree with every comment here. This is an essential part of wrestling that is missing from the fire pro experience.

[View The Phenom]

The Solution to No-Selling Moves

So, the opponent not selling big moves like turnbuckle attacks or running moves while grounded, has been an issue in Fire Pro for a long time. I've seen the question asked with respect to how the devs plan on addressing this problem and have what I think is a simple solution.

There are certain moves in the game where the opponent will continue to sell while the attacker is recovering (a specific dragon screw comes to mind), allowing him to get into position to chain grapples or strikes together. Instead of focusing on increased down-time when hit by moves, or resetting the recovery and possibly screwing up balance, why not add a sell animation that's triggered when a wrestler hits a moves with the "special" or "finisher" tag applied to it?

For example, the opponent has a finisher from the top turnbuckle. He hits it and the opponent goes into a pre-determined sell animation, possibly based on his position when hit. The attacker then has an opportunity to follow up the move or pin the opponent. This could apply to non-pin grapple moves, strikes or even submission moves where the opponent would immediately sell the limb damage if he breaks a submission hold.

In order to keep it balanced, this could be restricted to the first use of a move only so you can avoid situations where players just abuse it for the recovery animation multiple times. Maybe even the first use of a finisher only so it's really reserved for important sequences in a match.

Any thoughts?

[Koldnova]

Opponents just need to stay their butt down way longer than they currently do.

[Retro]

What about it being an attribute for certain characters, like everyone says Ziggler sells the best not EVERY wrestle sells good 'hogan' we should have a mixture of aphletes who do things better then others?

[DarkChyld_80]

1. Limb damage should be reflected visually. Have wrestlers hold and favor their injured limbs. Also have moves fail randomly due to wrestlers being injured as well as making them more subseptible to submissions. Lastly making limb damage effect wrestler's performance. Maybe slower running and climbling speed. If torso is injured, breathing recovers less stamina. Head injuries would give all grapple moves a chance to make opponent wake up groggy, not just Heavy Grapples.

2. An actual tap-out animation for submissions would be nice.

3. ART OF THE NO-SELL - Have a no-sell reversal type that will allow the offensive move to be completed but the person on the receiving end will quickly pop to their feet, or shrug off the move as if nothing happened. A few animations i'd like to see with this idea are:

a. Undertaker/Kane Sit-Up animation
b. Brock Lesnar's beast roar vs standing strikes including weapons


4. Make wrestlers stay down longer after big moves especially and grab limb that move was performed on. Adding selling animations after moves will also give players more time to follow up as they can plan their next attack while their opponent is locked in the selling animations.

[Kreator]

Lots of great ideas posted here and I hope they do add more selling animations. Holding injured limbs, but otherwise playing the same will go a long way to improving the emotion of a match. Adding parameter adjustments based on damage is even better!

While controlling a match as the player, I often hold the Medium strike button down while on the mat. That keeps you from popping up when recovered. As soon as you're actually recovered (and would normally pop up) you can roll around on the mat as long as you keep the button held down. This is nice for escaping to ringside to catch your breath, or simply "dodge" a ground grapple attempt and then stand up.

I love the idea of certain "no-sell" animations like Undertaker sitting up, or certain giant characters shrugging off low level strikes. With the addition of the strike battles, seems like it opens the possibility for quite a few other automated situations to come into play based on certain character criteria.

[Bachias]

I already posted in the pinned thread about it, but like others I'd really like to see the selling time improved upon for when you hit a top rope move to a downed opponent, especially since it's been an issue for longer than just FPWW. As it is, unless the move has a built-in pin, it's almost impossible to pin someone with something like the more impactful looking Diving Footstomp or a Diving Senton.

Maybe you could do something like having it add a couple of seconds to their "selling timer" if you connect with one of those moves, giving you enough time to also go over for the pin before they get up?

[kyyneva]

I don't know what it would do to the flow of the match in Fire Pro, but in AKI engine games you had multiple standing up animations depending on the wrestler's condition and situation. In those games even if a wrestler stood up right after a big move, they did a slower getting up animation with resting a second on one knee. This made it seem a lot less like no selling.

Edit: Not having time to pin after top rope moves is a bigger issue though.

[Airy]

At the very least, if they're not going to do more animations,etc., can you just tweak the time that the opponent stays down after a move tagged as S or F? That would be a small, easy fix.

Also them staying down after a pinfall would be nice. Nothing kills immersion more than when you kill someone with a finisher, get the pin, and then they pop up 1 second later.

[Airy]

Also, can we please have more selling after a deathmatch event? It sort of kills the fun of those modes when people get up immediately after being exploded.

[Capt Wavey]

Originally posted by View The Phenom:

The Solution to No-Selling Moves

So, the opponent not selling big moves like turnbuckle attacks or running moves while grounded, has been an issue in Fire Pro for a long time. I've seen the question asked with respect to how the devs plan on addressing this problem and have what I think is a simple solution.

There are certain moves in the game where the opponent will continue to sell while the attacker is recovering (a specific dragon screw comes to mind), allowing him to get into position to chain grapples or strikes together. Instead of focusing on increased down-time when hit by moves, or resetting the recovery and possibly screwing up balance, why not add a sell animation that's triggered when a wrestler hits a moves with the "special" or "finisher" tag applied to it?

For example, the opponent has a finisher from the top turnbuckle. He hits it and the opponent goes into a pre-determined sell animation, possibly based on his position when hit. The attacker then has an opportunity to follow up the move or pin the opponent. This could apply to non-pin grapple moves, strikes or even submission moves where the opponent would immediately sell the limb damage if he breaks a submission hold.

In order to keep it balanced, this could be restricted to the first use of a move only so you can avoid situations where players just abuse it for the recovery animation multiple times. Maybe even the first use of a finisher only so it's really reserved for important sequences in a match.

Any thoughts?

Had to sign in at work just to say i 110% agree with everything here top to bottom. This would put this game over the top and i'd enjoy it way more than i already do with this system.

[Retro]

Would be great to get a sticky on this one (since the dev said he'd wanted it noted on steam forums, so he can check it out, the topic of selling)