Help with Submission finishers.

[jethroSkull]

I've always found this to be a bit tricky in Firepro games. I find when creating sim wrestlers for matches its hard to make wrestlers who have submission holds as finishers to feel relevant.

I am currently working on Bret vs Shawn early 90s era match up.

It seems in monst matches I've simmed so far (whether it be vs Shawn or any other wrestler), the sharpshooter has to hit sometimes 5-7 times to get a win and even then, sometimes still no submission. Whereas other moves (sweet chin music in this case) can land 2-3 times max to get a win.

- I've jacked Bret up to 10 for both sharpshooter related paramaters (joint/stretch)
- I've adjusted the logic so that he only goes for it in LRG damage or ctritical condition scenarios (20% LRG, 80% CRT)

Still same results.

What other factors are there to concider?

This is something I've never been able to get to work properly even with others I've tried like Flair and Jericho in other versions of firepro as well.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[Zealot]

Well first of all, I wouldn't necessarily set the params straight to 10 to solve the problem. The only reason I say this is because any other moves the edit uses with those params will be overpowered and raise the probability of false finishes.

Second, for what I do personally for an edit that works up to a match ending submission, I would set the logic for the submission to only have points in the large/critical column only. Any points for that move put in small or medium damage categories will more than likely provide an unnecessary and early finisher attempt while the match is building.

Third, a setup move is pretty key to prioritize guaranteeing a submisison or pinfall connects at the right time. Let's take Daniel Bryan for example. Let's say I want to set up his YES Lock with a Drop Toe Hold. I would make the drop toe hold late large/critical damage only move in front grapple and set it at like 0%-0%-7%. Below 10% is key because above that threshold, you will see that move 5-6 times a match which will really get annoying.

Then, I always set priorities to 100%-100% or 0%-100%. In this case, it would be 100% at large damage to link to the crossface.

Setup move aside, I would set the crossface by itself to be hit out of the blue at like 0%-0%-10% or less. That way, you are not seeing that move more than 2-3 times in a match given outside influences like rope breaks or an edit with the Guts ability and it gives the edit a higher probability to submit his opponent late match.

[sofia ciel]

Spirit is a big factor. The thing with using submissions as a finisher is that if they still have spirit, they will be able to escape, and while it'll cost them stamina to break out, escaping from the hold increases their spirit, IIRC.

[jethroSkull]

Thanks for the replies guys,

Zealot - I only put the paramaters so high to see if it would actually make a difference but it didn't seem to. I will try to lower the percentages so the move hits less.... (although my problem isn't totally how many times the move hits but rather that it needs to hit so many times for a result)... I will try to look into the move priorities as well to make sure I have it sorted out correctly

Dank kushrenada - I beieve I had Shawn's spirit set pretty high so perhaps that is giving him a higher probability of escape.

I'll try to make some adujstments :)

[Tomkatt]

Lower your stretch stat to 7 or 8 to reduce tapouts on non-finishers. Maybe even as low as 6, and then allocate points to make submissions your critical instead.

Just be aware that guts type wrestlers will still have a low likelihood to submit, you'll just have to hit them with it repeatedly.

Also, don't know if it helps in-game, but for realism's sake maybe use some submissions in the mid-match game. Toe holds, boston crab, leg lock. Use those mid-match to simulate wearing the opponent down and hurting the legs.

[jethroSkull]

Originally posted by Tomkatt:

Lower your stretch stat to 7 or 8 to reduce tapouts on non-finishers. Maybe even as low as 6, and then allocate points to make submissions your critical instead.

Just be aware that guts type wrestlers will still have a low likelihood to submit, you'll just have to hit them with it repeatedly.

Also, don't know if it helps in-game, but for realism's sake maybe use some submissions in the mid-match game. Toe holds, boston crab, leg lock. Use those mid-match to simulate wearing the opponent down and hurting the legs.

I'll try bringing down the paramaters a bit because I do tend to get some submissions not related to that actual finisher. As you suggested, I have been using some other finishers mid fight as set up moves ie half crabs and the like.

What do you mean about using points making submissions critical? Is that a special ability?

Thanks for the suggestions

[Tomkatt]

In skills you can set critical type. You can change it from finisher to submission. But if your finisher is a submission and set correctly don't worry about it.