Edit grappling question.

[Imijj]

Hey, is there a stat that impacts how good your edits are at winning a grapple? It seems like certain edits are able to win grapples against superior edits more often than they should.

Thanks.

[Imijj]

I'm using Senator's Ahmed Johson edit who is about 140 points, and he is murdering people with much higher stats. I must be missing something.

[View The Phenom]

Only Ukemi, which determines how often edits will feed their opponent during grapples. Otherwise, it's completely random.

[Imijj]

Well, I must be missing something, because this guy is clearly a superior grappler. Maybe I don't understand Okemi, but it doesn't really change when I make their Okemi stats equal.

[Carlzilla]

RNG determines who wins grapples.

Total points has nothing to do with it. Ukemi determains how often an edit will disable their ability to auto-counter a move in exchange for banking points for a later comeback...it's not meant to make a wrestler lose grapples because they're "not as good". There is no stat for that.

Being "clearly a superior grappler" means absolutely nothing to the engine. It's a timing based engine, and AI timing is based on the random seed and the CPU difficulty level.

[Imijj]

I never said it means anything to the engine. I'm saying that when I sim matches at level 10, this one edit continually wins 75% of the grapples no matter who I put him up against. If it's supposed to be random, either something is strange with the edit, or this edit is incredibly lucky.


The same thing happens when I zero out all the ukemi for both fighters as well.

Do some moves have priority over others? Or do any of the settings (like initiate grapple %s) impact grappling at all?

Something has to be wrong for a guy with half as many edit points to be winning on a regular basis. Just trying to figure out what that is so I can change it when I create my own guys.

[Eddie]

Moves dont have priority. It is how the edit is programmed. If they have a higher percentage in one move, they perform it or are more likely to perform it.

At the begining. BIG moves are more likely not to be performed sucessfully however. The opponent must be damaged.

[Superplex]

Must be something similar to what Bowman. Maybe your edit has too high percentage in BIG (or even MED) moves early. Unless you want to be counter (which I actually do every now and then), you really don't want to put any point at all in BIG early. There's also the chance that you are doing moves that certain style don't play along with, like doing leg feed enzuiguri on an MMA style, they will most likely counter it and you might mistaken that as them winning the grapple when in fact you actually won. Or if you're a small dude trying to body slam a big dude, that might not work early. Size does play a factor (gender does not).

[liquidalex]

If you have the patience you can play with putting small to med moves in the big slots, and have a lot of attempts for the big moves early. This with the Ukemi of the opponent can make some interesting things occur and using a limited movset is more about making a jobber then say the logic. I know you aren't saying make a jobber per se, I think some of us have this notion, myself included that some wrestlers would never lose to others but that is almost the magic of Fire Pro. But even in matches where someone is far superior, there is often a flurry of offense or hope spot for the overmatched. And I believe it is Hurricane Helms that said the schoolboy was the deadliest finisher in the biz, as it has beaten everyone. Fire Pro is that world.

[cackimon]

Is it a fact that some moves dont have priority? I dont have any proof or knowledge of the under the hood stuff, but I have always had a suspicion that certain moves do get priority. For example if two people tie but one does a weak move and the other a circle move, I feel like weak gets a priority. I feel like lucha or quick moves may also get a priority. Thats purely suspicion on my part. Ace crusher for example seems to be very hittable in comparison to other moves. Also I play the majority of my matches so it may not apply to simming.

[AcidDragon]

Yeah, I dunno if it's just all in my head but certain moves like snapmare and hammer throw seem to be really easy to "win" compared to other heavier moves.

[Superplex]

Originally posted by liquidalex:

If you have the patience you can play with putting small to med moves in the big slots, and have a lot of attempts for the big moves early. This with the Ukemi of the opponent can make some interesting things occur and using a limited movset is more about making a jobber then say the logic. I know you aren't saying make a jobber per se, I think some of us have this notion, myself included that some wrestlers would never lose to others but that is almost the magic of Fire Pro. But even in matches where someone is far superior, there is often a flurry of offense or hope spot for the overmatched. And I believe it is Hurricane Helms that said the schoolboy was the deadliest finisher in the biz, as it has beaten everyone. Fire Pro is that world.

That's very interesting. So it's the move itself that requires damange, not the button you press. So what you suggest means a wrestler can do BIG button attacks early and get the opponent daze, for some really strong/entertaining early game that otherwise would be unobtainable, at the expense of movesets only available at BIG button attacks.

I think even if you just have 1 move like that, even a superstar can take adventage of it.

[The Hat]

I have big wrestlers and small, with every point differential you can imagine, 300 point tanks and 10 point jobbers. These edits have every ukemi setting you can think of. I understand the logic of giving top edits big moves and weak edits weak moves and the proper spots these moves should occupy in a match. And my skinny little jobber edits who often get winded in the first five or ten minutes are STILL utterly dominating my beefy tanks when it comes to grapple winning. I have tried using every ukemi setting under the sun. Absolutely no effect.

So you know what I did? I took my strongest edit who was losing all of his grapples, EPIC. Matched him against a lower-tier edit known as Regulator. Simmed 25 matches. And had the lower-tier guy routinely win matches with the tank, and ALWAYS win most grapples, often as many as 15-20 CONSECUTIVELY.

I thought, what the absolute ♥♥♥♥. A beefy tank with high parameters settings, big late stage moves and nerfed special skills should beat a lower tier jobber probably every time, right? RNG be damned. So I inverted all of the settings. IN PARAMETER O-N-L-Y. I made no other changes or alterations to the two edits I have mentioned. And in the tests I did afterward, I found that EPIC, the wrestler I shifted from tank to jobber for the purposes of this test (sorry, EPIC) now WON in most grapple scenarios. Despite being the weaker edit.

I don't want to hear the rhetoric about the RNG. I am essentially fed up with the rhetoric about the RNG. This situation should not be consistently manifesting if the RNG is doing what it is supposed to be doing.

I'm not new to Fire Pro. I've been simming since Returns. I knew about RNG. And I'm saying, if the RNG is responsible for this, then the RNG is broken. I don't know if some glitch is prompting the RNG to always select specific numbers at the expense of other numbers, or what's the problem. But I do know that if I have to be subjected to this crap where my perfectly good tanks take 10 big shots while struggling to land even ONE punch much longer, I'm liable to chuck my frigging controller at the screen.