route E end (spoiler)

[Bracer]

the credit scene is freaking hard for the love of god those who compled it without help good job you are litterly a god. i lost 5 poeples saves in the mean time. and sacrifised mine
but worth it!! (qeustion how many save did you delete and have you sacrifised yours)
btw i tought i was smart to have multipel saves and i was thinking of copying the file but never bother. but it dindt work well lets start again form the start. while i have just a littel time for it.

[DeadByLag]

It doesn't matter how many "saves" you relied on to defeat the credits. You won't get to "delete" any entry server side.

Think about it logically. If you happened to be the very world first customer to complete the game to that stage, do you think you'd be left all alone to fight through it all, carrying the weight of the world on your own?

That is going to leave a very nasty user experience, not just to the first, but to every subsequent player. Based on average observation, a player would die 5-7 times with help. If that is the case, naive game design would require 5-7 times more players who are able to defeat the sequence by themselves.

Do you think that is mathematically practical?

As a software developer/architect myself, I'd never design this feature like that. I'd pre-seed the server side with entries from the development/test teams, so the very first customer gets "encouragement" to play on. And for each player who gets moved and inspired to "sacrifice" themselves, another entry is saved to the server, but not deleted.

All you see on your screen are random entries pulled from the server. Not a FIFO queue.

[Aemony]

I think I lost 3 or so saves :'(

You will be missed!

Origineel geplaatst door riotangel:

It doesn't matter how many "saves" you relied on to defeat the credits. You won't get to "delete" any entry server side.

Think about it logically. If you happened to be the very world first customer to complete the game to that stage, do you think you'd be left all alone to fight through it all, carrying the weight of the world on your own?

That is going to leave a very nasty user experience, not just to the first, but to every subsequent player. Based on average observation, a player would die 5-7 times with help. If that is the case, naive game design would require 5-7 times more players who are able to defeat the sequence by themselves.

Do you think that is mathematically practical?

As a software developer/architect myself, I'd never design this feature like that. I'd pre-seed the server side with entries from the development/test teams, so the very first customer gets "encouragement" to play on. And for each player who gets moved and inspired to "sacrifice" themselves, another entry is saved to the server, but not deleted.

All you see on your screen are random entries pulled from the server. Not a FIFO queue.

Nobody actually want to know how a magician does his tricks. The experience itself is what matters.

[DeadByLag]

Origineel geplaatst door Aemony:

Nobody actually want to know how a magician does his tricks. The experience itself is what matters.

Those who do may then proceed on to perform magic tricks themselves and make money from those who don't. ;-)

[Zloth]

Not just slight spoilers but BIG HUGE SPOILERS THAT WILL MAKE YOU CRY ahead (and behind)

Origineel geplaatst door riotangel:

Think about it logically. If you happened to be the very world first customer to complete the game to that stage, do you think you'd be left all alone to fight through it all, carrying the weight of the world on your own?

Beta testers' info could be left in there. And the beta testers, being not paying customers, could just eat seed values in the database to start with. Since the number of players is growing by leaps and bounds at the start, they would have to keep re-using some sacrifices but, once the number of players starts going downward, it might be possible to use each sacrifice just once.

But do enough people sacrifice their game data to keep the chain going? I would really love to know.

What's also seriously fascinating is the busines side of this. That DLC they have isn't of much use until you reach the end game. If you take the game up on its offer....

[Minneyar]

Origineel geplaatst door riotangel:

As a software developer/architect myself, I'd never design this feature like that.

Something being unfair and providing a terrible user experience would never stop Yoko Taro from doing it. See: the last boss in Drakengard 3.

[Plynther]

Actually, that bullet hell it's made in a way that you can't complete it by yourself, you either surrender or ask for help. It was a really emotional moment, I asked for help and ended up sacrificing my save without regret, even if I never get to help somebody.

[Ogami]

Origineel geplaatst door Plynther:

Actually, that bullet hell it's made in a way that you can't complete it by yourself, you either surrender or ask for help. It was a really emotional moment, I asked for help and ended up sacrificing my save without regret, even if I never get to help somebody.

Actually, look on YT . There are multiple people who completed it on their own. Its doable but takes a LONG time. And you must be really good at Bullet Hell games.

And yes, the player saves do not get deleted when "hit". Its just names. I watched about 30 LP of the game over time ( i like the game, sue me >.>) and i seen the same names appear in that last sequence for different players multiple times. So yes, its just a illusion, but like already said, its more about the emotion of the moment and not about the real mechanic behind it.

[Plynther]

Origineel geplaatst door Ogami:

Origineel geplaatst door Plynther:

Actually, that bullet hell it's made in a way that you can't complete it by yourself, you either surrender or ask for help. It was a really emotional moment, I asked for help and ended up sacrificing my save without regret, even if I never get to help somebody.

Actually, look on YT . There are multiple people who completed it on their own. Its doable but takes a LONG time. And you must be really good at Bullet Hell games.

And yes, the player saves do not get deleted when "hit". Its just names. I watched about 30 LP of the game over time ( i like the game, sue me >.>) and i seen the same names appear in that last sequence for different players multiple times. So yes, its just a illusion, but like already said, its more about the emotion of the moment and not about the real mechanic behind it.

Damn, for real? ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ asians

[Zloth]

Origineel geplaatst door Ogami:

... and i seen the same names appear in that last sequence for different players multiple times. So yes, its just a illusion, but like already said, its more about the emotion of the moment and not about the real mechanic behind it.

Arg, that's really too bad.

But it's still a surprise that they do it. People who want to buy the DLC after they finish the game probably won't do it if they get their save wiped.

[DeadByLag]

Origineel geplaatst door Zloth:

Beta testers' info could be left in there. And the beta testers, being not paying customers, could just eat seed values in the database to start with. Since the number of players is growing by leaps and bounds at the start, they would have to keep re-using some sacrifices but, once the number of players starts going downward, it might be possible to use each sacrifice just once.

But do enough people sacrifice their game data to keep the chain going? I would really love to know.

What's also seriously fascinating is the busines side of this. That DLC they have isn't of much use until you reach the end game. If you take the game up on its offer....

And how many beta players do you think would be required to seed the database for the rest of the gamers to readily consume without fear of depletion? The math simply wouldn't add up. Skill wise there just won't be enough players who are capable of accomplishing the feat alone to support the overwhelming population who can't.

[Void#151625]

actually that game is compiled with a random name list that it uses on those helpers.
the so called "support" is a ingame solo function
thats why it works in both online and offline play
since its just per say a premade system. with premade name database.
the online is only to add your name to the end credits, thats it, nothing more.

removing that local save data will also remove your form that credits. since its stored in your save settings
meaning you can reset it anytime you want.

[mnb]

Origineel geplaatst door Void#151625:

actually that game is compiled with a random name list that it uses on those helpers.
the so called "support" is a ingame solo function
thats why it works in both online and offline play
since its just per say a premade system. with premade name database.

Except it doesn't work offline and it collects player names, not premade ones.

[Aemony]

Origineel geplaatst door mnb:

Origineel geplaatst door Void#151625:

actually that game is compiled with a random name list that it uses on those helpers.
the so called "support" is a ingame solo function
thats why it works in both online and offline play
since its just per say a premade system. with premade name database.

Except it doesn't work offline and it collects player names, not premade ones.

Correct. You can't get help without connecting to the online servers. You'll just get the prompt to go online time and time again repeatedly on each death until it is able to go online.