Denuvo's servers going down. Is it such a bad thing ?

[Signya]

I mean, one of the main argument against Denuvo is that you won't be able to play the game once Denuvo's servers are down. People are also saying the game will be cracked in no time. Nevertheless, the game will in any case be cracked before the servers go down. Therefore, wouldn't you just download the cracked game in the eventuality of the servers going offline ?
You would just lose your saves, which is a minor problem that could probably be solved.
If I'm missing something, please tell me. But I really don't understand why so many people are so anti-Denuvo.
If you're hyped for the game, sincerely hyped, you'll buy it anyway. Doesn't matter if it has Denuvo or not. By doing so, you give money to the developers and that money gives them a reason to make more games like this one.
But I'm leaving the topic.
Thank you for your answers.

[Kaldaien]

Signya Lenthiel eredeti hozzászólása:

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

The cracked version will cease to function when Denuvo servers go down as well. It's only Steam DRM that gets cracked, and any Denuvo-protected game with a crack still requires activation.

So ... yeah, it is the end of the world when Denuvo reaches end-of-life and a publisher does nothing about it. But this is almost certainly not going to happen, ever.

Isn't that what happens when the game has been bypassed ?
Isn't the cracked version completely free from Denuvo ?

1. Steam DRM is removed (technically replaced with a dummy implementation), such that activation always succeeds.
   
2. No.

[Signya]

kurosov eredeti hozzászólása:

The reason these games become unplayable and require the "illegal download" is because the DRM locked out your legal copy. Without Denuvo or another DRM system that requires outside active verification your original purchase will continue to function even if you replace your PC.

To me games are a long term source of entertainment. I know the current generation are more inclined to the idea of a game purchase being a set few hours (and shorter every year) source of entertainment but I've grown up with games that still hold up through time and i play many of them often.

But couldn't that be a positive thing ? If you want a game to be a long term source of entertainment, forcing you to download it illegaly because the servers went down could turn out to be a good thing.
Let's say you want to play the game for a month now. Then for a couple of weeks in a year. Then for a week or so in a few years.
Forcing you to redownload the game could be a pain in the ass. But a few years from now, chances are that you will have uninstalled the game and whether the game you want to play has Denuvo or not, you'll have to redownload it.
Now, if it has Denuvo and their servers went offline, the only difference is that you'll have to redownload it in its cracked version. It's not that big of a deal.
I understand that you'd like your games to still entertain you even years after your purchase, but restarting the game from scrap (because you redownloaded it illegaly of genuinely) is a nice moment full of nostalgia.

[Signya]

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

Signya Lenthiel eredeti hozzászólása:

Isn't that what happens when the game has been bypassed ?
Isn't the cracked version completely free from Denuvo ?

1. Steam DRM is removed (technically replaced with a dummy implementation), such that activation always succeeds.
   
2. No.

I don't really get the difference between bypassed and cracked then.

So you can't play cracked Denuvo games while being offline ? Because if you can, then you don't need their servers and so you don't care if they're still up or not.

[kurosov]

Signya Lenthiel eredeti hozzászólása:

kurosov eredeti hozzászólása:

The reason these games become unplayable and require the "illegal download" is because the DRM locked out your legal copy. Without Denuvo or another DRM system that requires outside active verification your original purchase will continue to function even if you replace your PC.

To me games are a long term source of entertainment. I know the current generation are more inclined to the idea of a game purchase being a set few hours (and shorter every year) source of entertainment but I've grown up with games that still hold up through time and i play many of them often.

But couldn't that be a positive thing ? If you want a game to be a long term source of entertainment, forcing you to download it illegaly because the servers went down could turn out to be a good thing.
Let's say you want to play the game for a month now. Then for a couple of weeks in a year. Then for a week or so in a few years.
Forcing you to redownload the game could be a pain in the ass. But a few years from now, chances are that you will have uninstalled the game and whether the game you want to play has Denuvo or not, you'll have to redownload it.
Now, if it has Denuvo and their servers went offline, the only difference is that you'll have to redownload it in its cracked version. It's not that big of a deal.
I understand that you'd like your games to still entertain you even years after your purchase, but restarting the game from scrap (because you redownloaded it illegaly of genuinely) is a nice moment full of nostalgia.

No, It is in no way a good thing to be forced to illegally download a game you previously bought.

What you said made no sense at all.

[Kaldaien]

Signya Lenthiel eredeti hozzászólása:

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

1. Steam DRM is removed (technically replaced with a dummy implementation), such that activation always succeeds.
   
2. No.

I don't really get the difference between bypassed and cracked then.

So you can't play cracked Denuvo games while being offline ? Because if you can, then you don't need their servers and so you don't care if they're still up or not.

You can play non-cracked Denuvo-protected games offline as well as cracked Denuvo-protected games.

What the crack does is remove Steam DRM. That means that activation always succeeds (assuming an Internet connection exists at the time of activation) even if you don't own the game. Activation is part of Denuvo and a part of the cracked game as well.

[OTIS]

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

Signya Lenthiel eredeti hozzászólása:

I don't really get the difference between bypassed and cracked then.

So you can't play cracked Denuvo games while being offline ? Because if you can, then you don't need their servers and so you don't care if they're still up or not.

You can play non-cracked Denuvo-protected games offline as well as cracked Denuvo-protected games.

What the crack does is remove Steam DRM. That means that activation always succeeds (assuming an Internet connection exists at the time of activation) even if you don't own the game. Activation is part of Denuvo and a part of the cracked game as well.

This is assuming that the crack is designed to remove the Steam DRM, not the Denuvo DRM.

I mean there are different cracks for different things, right?

You could create a completely different crack that makes it so the Denuvo will always register regardless of whether or not their server are activated, or whether or not you own the game. This would bypass the Denuvo, not Steam.

It all comes down to what the crack was designed to do.

[Kaldaien]

OTIS eredeti hozzászólása:

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

You can play non-cracked Denuvo-protected games offline as well as cracked Denuvo-protected games.

What the crack does is remove Steam DRM. That means that activation always succeeds (assuming an Internet connection exists at the time of activation) even if you don't own the game. Activation is part of Denuvo and a part of the cracked game as well.

This is assuming that the crack is designed to remove the Steam DRM, not the Denuvo DRM.

I mean there are different cracks for different things, right?

You could create a completely different crack that makes it so the Denuvo will always register regardless of whether or not their server are activated, or whether or not you own the game. This would bypass the Denuvo, not Steam.

It all comes down to what the crack was designed to do.

There is no Denuvo DRM. Denuvo only protects Steam DRM from being tampered with. You clearly don't even know what Denuvo is :( I'm not going to be an ass about this, but you should really brush up on this stuff.

The only thing that is ever cracked is the underlying Steam DRM. With it, you loose all SteamWorks features and the 800 pound gorilla in the room, Denuvo, remains. However, Denuvo activates the pirated game because the DRM (Steam) that tells it you own the game has been compromised.

[Lycaerix]

kurosov eredeti hozzászólása:

No, It is in no way a good thing to be forced to illegally download a game you previously bought.

Therein lies the crux of the argument: In the same breath as "Piracy is evil, piracy is bad!" you have "But you should rely on piracy in the future to play the games you bought that no longer work because terrible publishers and developers forced you to pirate it to bypass their draconian and futile DRM."

A mouthful, I know, but that's ultimately what it boils down to: DRM has never prevented piracy and it has only ever truly bothered the paying customers.

Round and round we go.

Should there be unreasonable restrictions (the constitution of which should be obvious) on how you may use a product that you have paid for? No.

Is the likes of Denuvo akin to that of Securom, Tardes, ye olde Ubisoft 'always on' DRM, et al in that it will in all probability prevent you from playing your games on future operating systems, hardware and long after the Denuvo servers are dead, etc? Yes.

Denuvo and its ilk are symptomatic of a chronic malignancy in the gaming industry that enables a mindless and seemingly endless cacophony of consumer rights abuses. Abuses which are nonetheless permitted by far too many kowtowing 'apathists' who then later wonder why the crap they bought no longer works and why they can't return or refund items that are broken, that they don't like or that otherwise they feel 'entitled' to be able to do.

And, alas, I can't even fault them. I've bought far too many Denuvo games myself simply because 'why bother'.

This sort of bull will never change, short of a significant consumer backlash. Yes! That's right folks, you, as consumers, are the ones with a say and not the pirates whom publishers clearly feel are a marketable demographic addressable through DRM!

And consumer backlash simply isn't going to happen because--admit it--we gamers are, unfortunately, slaves to the machine that churns out the fuel for our impassioned hobby.

The only recourse is to argue about Denuvo and its ilk at every opportunity and hope that some brain-dead group of guppies that constitute the functioning head of a publisher/developer twig on that chances are, DRM of that nature is more inclined to end up with little Steamy down-thumbs rather than Steamy up-thumbs by folk who bought the game and otherwise enjoyed it.

That is, after all, the extent of our humble act of rebellion against both the publishers and developers who think it acceptable, and our own cognitive dissonance.

[Kaldaien]

Cbunny eredeti hozzászólása:

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

There is no Denuvo DRM. Denuvo only protects Steam DRM from being tampered with. You clearly don't even know what Denuvo is :( I'm not going to be an ass about this, but you should really brush up on this stuff.

2 possibilities:

1. Valve are liars http://store.steampowered.com/app/440900/

Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Denuvo Antitamper

2. You're a liar.

I'm going to go with #2. You have no idea what you're talking about. Every single one of your posts is false information (I guess you call them alternative facts).

3. You're an idiot, and everyone already knows this. You can stop making an ass of yourself any time now.

[Vojtak42]

Kaldaieℵ₀ eredeti hozzászólása:

Cbunny eredeti hozzászólása:

2 possibilities:

1. Valve are liars http://store.steampowered.com/app/440900/


2. You're a liar.

I'm going to go with #2. You have no idea what you're talking about. Every single one of your posts is false information (I guess you call them alternative facts).

3. You're an idiot, and everyone already knows this. You can stop making an ass of yourself any time now.

4. You are an Idiot.
So tell me why cracked denuvo games run faster than uncracked ones. This is because Denuvo has been completely removed.

From wikipedia:
"According to Empress, a notable Denuvo cracker, the software assigns a unique authentication token to each copy of a game, depending on factors like the user's hardware. The DRM is integrated with the game's code, which makes it especially hard to circumvent."

[Vojtak42]

Signya Lenthiel eredeti hozzászólása:

Kaldaien eredeti hozzászólása:

1. Steam DRM is removed (technically replaced with a dummy implementation), such that activation always succeeds.
   
2. No.

I don't really get the difference between bypassed and cracked then.

So you can't play cracked Denuvo games while being offline ? Because if you can, then you don't need their servers and so you don't care if they're still up or not.

1. I think bypassed means using keygen as Steampunks did.
Cracked means removing Denuvo completely as Empress do.

[Kaldaien]

Vojta42 eredeti hozzászólása:

Kaldaieℵ₀ eredeti hozzászólása:

3. You're an idiot, and everyone already knows this. You can stop making an ass of yourself any time now.

4. You are an Idiot.
So tell me why cracked denuvo games run faster than uncracked ones. This is because Denuvo has been completely removed.

No. It's because among other things, SteamAPI is replaced with a stub implementation that does nothing. That's the entire point of "cracking" Denuvo -- decoupling games from SteamAPI is trivial without Denuvo obfuscating things.

Tales of Arise wouldn't even work when the game shipped at release because of SteamInput issues, luckily working-around those issues was trivial because Denuvo was not used. Insert Steam Client Emulator and cut StamInput out of the equation.

[CybernetikFrozone]

I like to play DRM-free and would love to see Nier Automata become DRM-free, after all the game is from 2017 and the thing has made its sales. When it comes out on Gog with all the DLC's I'll buy it again.

[Kaldaien]

Why? The patched version of the game is inferior to the launch version. The better performing and higher image quality variant of the game is forever going to be frozen here on Steam w/ Denuvo activation required.

Gotta jump through hoops to even get the launch version of the game though :-\ And Special K / FAR's codebase no longer supports it either because I foolishly updated it to support the Microsoft Store / Steam release and can't maintain support for both.