Crush Crush

Crush Crush

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Oji Panda May 21, 2016 @ 7:43pm
Game Writer Here - Let's talk about Cassie
Hey everyone, Oji Panda here.

For those who don’t know, I’m the Game Designer *and Writer* for Crush Crush. I make the words that go with Artist Panda’s beautiful artwork.

I have a question I’d like to query you Early Access fans on. Do you think Cassie needs a re-write?

Let me give some quick background info, and why I’m asking.

Cassie was the first girl I wrote for the game. When Artist Panda and I sat down to flesh out the characters, we started with a few character archetypes that we enjoy seeing in Anime. If you watch Anime like we do, you can easily guess a few. It was then my job to give the girls a unique voice and character, so that they’re not just cliches.

I, personally, really enjoy the Tsundere character type. And because they have such large personalities, I choose to develop Cassie first, because there isn’t a lot of subtlety needed for those characters.

As I’ve continued to develop the Crush Crush girls, I feel that their voices are becoming clearer and more compelling. Each one leaps off the page, so to speak, and takes on a personality of their own. And some of the quieter characters are proving to be very popular - which is a good sign.

But a piece of feedback I’ve been receiving with some frequency is a variation of- “Oh! Except for Cassie, I like all the girls!” It's funny how she sort of sticks out like that. Very few of the other girls elicit a similar reaction (except, perhaps, for Bearverly, who can be a bit startling).

Now Cassie definitely has her fans, and I’m always super stoked to see someone mention her as their favorite. But each girl in Crush Crush has benefitted from the work done on the girls before her, with Cassie being the only one written completely in isolation. So has she suffered a bit for that fact?

Hence my question: Does Cassie need a re-write?

Now, a re-write can mean a few things. What it doesn’t mean is a change in her intro story (she’s still the first girl you meet, and you run her down on your bike), but it can mean quite different directions for your relationship. Literally opposite directions, in some cases.

So if you were to have your way, what would you like to see done with Cassie? (I’ll post an actual poll soon, but I’ll start with just a discussion.)

1) I would like her to stay the same! She’s perfect! No need to tinker with her!

2) I would like to see her have a more sympathetic character. I want to learn more about her, and have her softer side more fleshed out.

3) I want her to be even MORE Tsundere! Make her more aggressive and dismissive! I love how materialistic and salty she is!

What do you guys think? And listen, there are no wrong answers here. If your opinion differs from the majority, please don't abstain from letting me know. I like working with lots of data.
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Showing 31-45 of 48 comments
RobDeLaMorte May 22, 2016 @ 9:55am 
Pretty much nothing. Until they remove the cap, then all bets are off. o/
bloodynewmoon May 22, 2016 @ 10:20am 
Tsunderes can be hard to write in a way that non-tsundere fans can enjoy them. There are going to be people that dislike her no matter what because they find the traits of a typical tsundere to be too b*tchy. I'll admit that during the first half of relationship I was rapidly tapping the chat button while internally screaming 'omg shut the hell up'.

Then again, it makes sense that she would be b*tchy at first. You injured her enough to put her in a full body cast! (Sorta.)

On the other hand, when she does start opening up to you, she becomes way more likeable as she starts to be all flirty and whatnot. So the more you can get her to like you, the more tolerable she becomes to non-tsundere fans. However, this is because she's now less tsun and more dere. Anyone that plays a dating sim likes dere. Probably only the tsundere fans are going to find it rewarding though that they managed to work their way into her heart.

Basically, if you want her to suit a more general audience, then option 2. If you want her to stay a particular type that certain people will very enjoyable/rewarding, then option 1. I don't think either one is a bad idea. Considering she'll be the first person people finish, she's going to be slightly overshadowed by later characters regardless, which means that people will only have to deal with her again during resets. Something to keep in mind.
Last edited by bloodynewmoon; May 22, 2016 @ 10:21am
Wraith_Magus May 22, 2016 @ 10:44am 
Originally posted by bloodynewmoon:
Tsunderes can be hard to write in a way that non-tsundere fans can enjoy them. There are going to be people that dislike her no matter what because they find the traits of a typical tsundere to be too b*tchy. I'll admit that during the first half of relationship I was rapidly tapping the chat button while internally screaming 'omg shut the hell up'.

To be honest, good tsunderes aren't always recognized as tsunderes. In fact, most people don't recognize that there are more male tsundere characters than female ones. (Tsundereness is generally just an immaturity about love that makes them react angrily at the notion that they even are in love...)

The problem is more that tsunderes are too often written to the same tired formula and played as a meme rather than a character.

Originally posted by bloodynewmoon:
On the other hand, when she does start opening up to you, she becomes way more likeable as she starts to be all flirty and whatnot. So the more you can get her to like you, the more tolerable she becomes to non-tsundere fans. However, this is because she's now less tsun and more dere. Anyone that plays a dating sim likes dere. Probably only the tsundere fans are going to find it rewarding though that they managed to work their way into her heart.

I don't think that's right. In fact, it's when she starts getting flirty that I think most people start to really dislike her.
Originally posted by Voltlighter:
First off, it should be noted that tsundere isn't a personality type so much as a way to describe how the character interacts with the main character. Quite often tsundere characters interact sweetly with other characters that they like, and have a likeable personality, they just hate the main character. The overall development is that they start liking the main character and have a hard time reconciling it with their initial distaste of him.

The problem with Cassie is her actual personality sucks. You get insight into the girls' personalities through the flavour text, and her's paints her as materialistic and shallow. Such a personality is in no way likeable, and the tsundere archetype has just been applied over this. Ironically the more you get to know her the less you like her. The more she opens up to you, the more you realize she's the type of girl you wouldn't really want anything to do with.

Again, when Cassie opens up, and isn't just griping at you for putting her in a cast (which isn't "tsun", it's just a normal reaction to someone whose only interaction thus far has been negligently hurting you,) is that she starts saying she'll only hang out with you if you work out enough to become a handsome lifeguard and give her lots of material possessions. She judges your character entirely by external appearances and wealth, and that's not a "tsundere" trait, that's a "shallow material girl" trait. She's more like the mean girls who bully the poor girl with magic powers before getting horribly slaughtered that the audience roots for than the main heroine tsundere.
roboticaust May 22, 2016 @ 10:48am 
@Wraith_Magus

Can we just replace cassie with you? Your extreme cynicism is charming in a strange way I can't quite describe *hands you a pair of glass slippers and takes you to the movies*
RobDeLaMorte May 22, 2016 @ 11:35am 
<< Maybe it's just me then. I don't get any shallow material stuff from Cassie. She notices you'd been hitting the gym and stuff and compliments you, I wouldn't really call that shallow per se.

If she were all "No I hate you go die in a fire" before and then suddenly "omg ur super hot!!" I could understand. I think a lot of this is just that labelling Cassie as a tsundere is kinda... Wrong. Like objectively wrong.
Wraith_Magus May 22, 2016 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by roboticaust:
@Wraith_Magus

Can we just replace cassie with you? Your extreme cynicism is charming in a strange way I can't quite describe *hands you a pair of glass slippers and takes you to the movies*
That is... not exactly the response I was expecting. (Glass slippers? Don't you know these things have terrible arch support? And what movie is even out that's worth the time to see?!) I somehow doubt that I'd receive a response even as good as Cassie gets, especially if what I really looked like was used... :cgrazz:

Making a character based upon the character I use as avatar and my personal all-time favorite character[en.touhouwiki.net], however, might be a good idea, and she typically musters a similarly wryly acerbic personality. (She also is the ultimate min/maxed wizard, a hikkikomori that hadn't left her room/library filled with books she wrote herself for over a hundred years, and is a master of magic with a CON score so low she's too asthmatic to actually cast most of the spells she knows. She made ribbons that boost her magic power, so like a true min/maxer, put twelve of them in her hair and had them decorate every available facet of her clothes. She's also known for using levitation spells to move because she's too tired/lazy to walk, warding her books against water so she can spend all day in the bath reading, and having clothing that notably looks like, and likely doubles as pajamas and slippers. Her specialty is making rocket ships to go to the moon at the behest of her landlord/best friend out of plywood, a freak ton of magic wards for structural integrity and thermal regulation, and using a miko with access to travel deities as "fuel". Basically, she fits right in with these other misfits, as would half of Touhou's cast.)
RobDeLaMorte May 22, 2016 @ 12:04pm 
Ew. A Patchouli fan. Say no more. It's no wonder your tastes are more questionable than Lady Gaga's fashion sense! >:D

Everyone knows best magical Touhou is Mima.


*Waits with line and hook in hand*
Last edited by RobDeLaMorte; May 22, 2016 @ 12:04pm
Wraith_Magus May 22, 2016 @ 12:17pm 
Originally posted by RobDeLaMorte:
Ew. A Patchouli fan. Say no more. It's no wonder your tastes are more questionable than Lady Gaga's fashion sense! >:D

Everyone knows best magical Touhou is Mima.


*Waits with line and hook in hand*
I think there's a pretty large overlap in the Venn diagram between Mima and Patchouli fans. You'd be better off as a ReimuXMarisa shipper that denies the existence of MarisaXPatchouli, or Sanae as only girl that exists, games before MoF don't count types if you were trying to start a flamewar. (All praise our lady of Makai, Shinki.)
RobDeLaMorte May 22, 2016 @ 12:23pm 
xD I was just doing a bit of the ol' lazy baiting. Don't worry about it.

<< I kind of wouldn't mind a Touhou-like game with the Crush Crush girls now, thinking about it. Although make it easy.


Q-Piddy would of course be the Extra/Phantasm level boss.
Last edited by RobDeLaMorte; May 22, 2016 @ 12:24pm
Voltlighter May 22, 2016 @ 1:19pm 
Originally posted by Wraith_Magus:
Originally posted by RobDeLaMorte:
Ew. A Patchouli fan. Say no more. It's no wonder your tastes are more questionable than Lady Gaga's fashion sense! >:D

Everyone knows best magical Touhou is Mima.


*Waits with line and hook in hand*
I think there's a pretty large overlap in the Venn diagram between Mima and Patchouli fans. You'd be better off as a ReimuXMarisa shipper that denies the existence of MarisaXPatchouli, or Sanae as only girl that exists, games before MoF don't count types if you were trying to start a flamewar. (All praise our lady of Makai, Shinki.)

I feel like this topic is degrading fast, that said; MARISAxALICE YOU HEATHEN. How can you not even mention it?

that is all.
GameTaco May 22, 2016 @ 1:25pm 
Like others said, I think Cassie is great, especially as the first girl of the cast. If there's anything I can agree with, it's that she never quite comes across as "tsundere" as we know it. Rather, she actually becomes quite forward and blunt once her sarcastic streak subsides.

She starts off rightfully disliking you, since you manage to send her to the hospital simply by wrecking into her, but she quickly mellows out, probably due to her realizing how eager you are to prove you're sorry by constantly buying things for her. She wants a guy that can dance, has a hot bod, and has loads of money, and you're all of those things. She's kinda like Iro when you think about it. The difference is that Cassie is somewhat self-centered about herself and shallow when it comes to what she likes about you, while Iro never diverges too far away from being the resident tomboy to come across this way.

So again, I don't think it's a bad thing at all, but maybe it is something of a shift in focus from the intended direction.

My favorite writing thus far is for Elle. Everything she says is just adorable. She's so precious, I wouldn't change a thing about her~
Snail May 22, 2016 @ 1:54pm 
I think she's fine as is.
Elucidator May 22, 2016 @ 2:07pm 
I like her twintails. Her art is diffidently good as it is. (I love it ;p) I don't see a reason to change that.

I think though that she needs more text and maybe a bigger role.

She only used the word baka (dummy/idiot/etc) once, but it didn't sound shy enough since it was already near the end of "the conquest", it fact it made it sound a bit weirded instead of showing her struggle with her feelings.
She sounded a bit more like like a light hearted tsundere.

Maybe you can exploit it a bit and turn it heavier.
I suggest taking a look at some very major examples: this girl for instance[oreshura.wikia.com]

Visual novels work well as resource. Konohana Lucia from Rewrite (which is also an upcoming anime) is a typical tsundere but also a class representative putting her in a weird position. (though getting that game may be difficult and costy, but you can watch youtube walkthroughs or something I assume.)


What the game needs I guess is the player to be able to make a choice, so that her response will be different. (more lines, explaining her feelings more, etc. and yes giving it some novel aspects could work well) Right now she is making up the lines and thoughts she assumes the main character has, but tsunderes are oversensitive with their feelings and emotions. You can't make her do this.

If the player remains quiet she'll drown in her feelings till it becomes hostile. Except that the player has to remain quiet at the moment, since well, all you can do is let time pass, give hearts and gifts. (if you want to make it clear that she is tsundere, she should probably 'over react' a bit when receiving a gift too.)

I suggest adding events to dates. (text and such... letting her explain stuff, etc. with maybe a few choices between, but if you need to date 10 times, than 10 events would be too much. Having such event once would be enough though, so it could work the first time or perhaps the third time. Just a suggestion.)

For the short amount of time spend with her in the current game... and her lines so far, she is done well.
.... but I think it's a bit sad too, because once you clear her conquest you basically stop looking at her at all. e.e;
And tsunderes in love are a bit attention addicts (usually), so that may need something.
Events for "love status"? (a suggestion here)

That she quickly recovers after being over bandaged is very anime-ish. (humor) I like that.
Last edited by Elucidator; May 22, 2016 @ 2:27pm
muljostpho May 22, 2016 @ 4:53pm 
Originally posted by Elucidator:
What the game needs I guess is the player to be able to make a choice, so that her response will be different. (more lines, explaining her feelings more, etc. and yes giving it some novel aspects could work well) Right now she is making up the lines and thoughts she assumes the main character has, but tsunderes are oversensitive with their feelings and emotions. You can't make her do this.

I was thinking something like this as well. Give us some different options in how we'll respond to certain lines and have that affect how the story is told. Maybe no current lines would actually need to be lost in a rewrite, then. Just shift them around to an appropriate place in whichever little dialogue tree they end up in.

Of course, this approach would be something to consider as a change in the approach for the game as a whole, not just one girl. They'd all need to have choices that can lead to different lines / different variations of their lines. (But then maybe they could hide secrets to discover at the end of different branches of dialogue. Like bonus artwork or something.)
RobDeLaMorte May 22, 2016 @ 4:54pm 
I loves interactivity. If they don't give us a full on VN with full story routes someday I'll be hella sad.
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Date Posted: May 21, 2016 @ 7:43pm
Posts: 48