Let me tell you why Chinese players are so angry🤬

[UN TTIC 浪]

I will try to keep it as simple as possible.
The anger of Chinese players is mainly due to the release of the content related to "架空印度".
They believe that this update does not respect historical facts.
This is an example: In an alternate history path in game, Turkey can gain cores on Xinjiang because some people in Xinjiang have Turkic ancestry.Even if this is a bit nonsense, it is also a guess based on history and reality.
However, in this DLC, India can gain cores on Tibet through its alternate history focus tree (and even on Shanghai), despite having almost no connection to these regions. Moreover, the center of the Silk Road was China, not India, yet China has no Silk Road-related content, while India does. 
This seriously violates the historical accuracy that a history-themed game should maintain. It’s like if Italy couldn't restore the Roman Empire, but Ethiopia could—just because they were once geographically close and had some trade disputes (which are almost irrelevant).
Even without considering the controversial political issues related to China, this is still a low-quality DLC that lacks historical accuracy

You're welcome to join a friendly discussion, but I do not welcome idiots who don't understand history and have been brainwashed by political propaganda.

[Immortalis]

And again, the issue is that you want China to receive an update (doesn’t matter how big or small, it’s still an update) for the simple reason that you cannot accept that India got a rework before you lot did.

If China was to get an alt-history path leading to the creation of the “Greater Empire of China and India” you’d have absolutely no issue with the lack of historical accuracy - except maybe that you’d want it to remain “Greater Chinese Empire”.

So let me reiterate: India is getting new things because they are included in this update.
China is not because they are not included in this update.
China will get their own flashy new things when and if it receives an update.

You do not care about historical accuracy, you do not care about discrimination, you only care about the fact that China is perceived (by your highly disingenuous lot) to be treated as something “less”.
And you’d be quite happy, borderline ecstatic in fact, if the opposite was true and China was to receive the possibility of creating cores on land that they never owned or controlled in the first place, like parts of India or Siberia.

[HappySack]

Where was this level of outrage when Anarchist Spain could core the world including Tibet?

[HB]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Where was this level of outrage when Anarchist Spain could core the world including Tibet?

Wait, it could?, hang on while i go get a pitchfork, meet me at the Bastille.....

[UN TTIC 浪]

Originally posted by Immortalis:

And again, the issue is that you want China to receive an update (doesn’t matter how big or small, it’s still an update) for the simple reason that you cannot accept that India got a rework before you lot did.

If China was to get an alt-history path leading to the creation of the “Greater Empire of China and India” you’d have absolutely no issue with the lack of historical accuracy - except maybe that you’d want it to remain “Greater Chinese Empire”.

So let me reiterate: India is getting new things because they are included in this update.
China is not because they are not included in this update.
China will get their own flashy new things when and if it receives an update.

You do not care about historical accuracy, you do not care about discrimination, you only care about the fact that China is perceived (by your highly disingenuous lot) to be treated as something “less”.
And you’d be quite happy, borderline ecstatic in fact, if the opposite was true and China was to receive the possibility of creating cores on land that they never owned or controlled in the first place, like parts of India or Siberia.

We should respect historical facts rather than indulge in the fantasy that all Chinese people are nationalists. Even the more recent update concerning South America had territorial claims based on historical and cultural considerations.

The so-called "Greater Chinese Empire" you mentioned might appeal to some extreme Chinese nationalists, but that does not change the fact that this DLC is of poor quality. You're attempting to justify the current DLC by speculating that a similarly low-quality DLC might be released in the future, which is not a valid defense.

[Dez]

Hearts of Iron 4 is game that contains many ahistorical paths, it's not strictly a historical game - never has been since it's release in 2016 where it was possible for almost all countries to divert from their historical path.

This is why so many people don't understand your anger, because we've all experienced this and there has been (to my knowledge) no outcry about country X having or not having core on state Y - at least not to the extent we're saying from some Chinese people.

At best people I've seen comments about how some formables are weird or unlikely, but never has there been such an outcry as we see today.

Maybe it's a cultural issue, but in most parts of the world nobody thinks this is a big deal. Nobody really cares that Italy can from the Roman Empire and even core land that the Roman Empire never even owned, even though it makes no sense - it's just there to be fun and bit "memy". Same is true for India formables.

[UN TTIC 浪]

Originally posted by HappySack:

Where was this level of outrage when Anarchist Spain could core the world including Tibet?

The situation of anarchic Spain is akin to the United Nations claiming a global core, but India's situation is entirely different.

[UN TTIC 浪]

Originally posted by Dez:

Hearts of Iron 4 is game that contains many ahistorical paths, it's not strictly a historical game - never has been since it's release in 2016 where it was possible for almost all countries to divert from their historical path.

This is why so many people don't understand your anger, because we've all experienced this and there has been (to my knowledge) no outcry about country X having or not having core on state Y - at least not to the extent we're saying from some Chinese people.

At best people I've seen comments about how some formables are weird or unlikely, but never has there been such an outcry as we see today.

Maybe it's a cultural issue, but in most parts of the world nobody thinks this is a big deal. Nobody really cares that Italy can from the Roman Empire and even core land that the Roman Empire never even owned, even though it makes no sense - it's just there to be fun and bit "memy". Same is true for India formables.

Yes, it's a matter of degree—ranging from "having some historical basis" to "being completely irrelevant or even overshadowing actual historical contexts."
From the **Great Nordic Empire** in the Northern Europe DLC to **India's Silk Road**, this progression perfectly illustrates that shift—from **some historical basis** to **completely irrelevant or even historically misleading concepts.**

[UN TTIC 浪]

Originally posted by hoi43409:

Originally posted by UN TTIC 浪:

We should respect historical facts rather than indulge in the fantasy that all Chinese people are nationalists. Even the more recent update concerning South America had territorial claims based on historical and cultural considerations.

The so-called "Greater Chinese Empire" you mentioned might appeal to some extreme Chinese nationalists, but that does not change the fact that this DLC is of poor quality. You're attempting to justify the current DLC by speculating that a similarly low-quality DLC might be released in the future, which is not a valid defense.

OMG! Chinese territorial homogeneity harmed, century of humiliation repeated by one pixel in a video game! I need to protest online!!!

What an annoying robot, it appears in every post, can everyone report it together?

[Dez]

Originally posted by UN TTIC 浪:

Originally posted by Dez:

Hearts of Iron 4 is game that contains many ahistorical paths, it's not strictly a historical game - never has been since it's release in 2016 where it was possible for almost all countries to divert from their historical path.

This is why so many people don't understand your anger, because we've all experienced this and there has been (to my knowledge) no outcry about country X having or not having core on state Y - at least not to the extent we're saying from some Chinese people.

At best people I've seen comments about how some formables are weird or unlikely, but never has there been such an outcry as we see today.

Maybe it's a cultural issue, but in most parts of the world nobody thinks this is a big deal. Nobody really cares that Italy can from the Roman Empire and even core land that the Roman Empire never even owned, even though it makes no sense - it's just there to be fun and bit "memy". Same is true for India formables.

Yes, it's a matter of degree—ranging from "having some historical basis" to "being completely irrelevant or even overshadowing actual historical contexts."
From the **Great Nordic Empire** in the Northern Europe DLC to **India's Silk Road**, this progression perfectly illustrates that shift—from **some historical basis** to **completely irrelevant or even historically misleading concepts.**

There are indeed varying degrees of ashistoric things happening in this game. Take the Roman Empire as an example, they can core Ireland even though they (the Romans) never even set foot there. This core makes much less sense than the Indian Silk Road Empire formable, at least India (and Tibet) was historically involved in the Silk Road - Ireland wasn't involved in the Roman Empire at all.

[Immortalis]

Originally posted by UN TTIC 浪:

Originally posted by Immortalis:

And again, the issue is that you want China to receive an update (doesn’t matter how big or small, it’s still an update) for the simple reason that you cannot accept that India got a rework before you lot did.

If China was to get an alt-history path leading to the creation of the “Greater Empire of China and India” you’d have absolutely no issue with the lack of historical accuracy - except maybe that you’d want it to remain “Greater Chinese Empire”.

So let me reiterate: India is getting new things because they are included in this update.
China is not because they are not included in this update.
China will get their own flashy new things when and if it receives an update.

You do not care about historical accuracy, you do not care about discrimination, you only care about the fact that China is perceived (by your highly disingenuous lot) to be treated as something “less”.
And you’d be quite happy, borderline ecstatic in fact, if the opposite was true and China was to receive the possibility of creating cores on land that they never owned or controlled in the first place, like parts of India or Siberia.

We should respect historical facts rather than indulge in the fantasy that all Chinese people are nationalists. Even the more recent update concerning South America had territorial claims based on historical and cultural considerations.

The so-called "Greater Chinese Empire" you mentioned might appeal to some extreme Chinese nationalists, but that does not change the fact that this DLC is of poor quality. You're attempting to justify the current DLC by speculating that a similarly low-quality DLC might be released in the future, which is not a valid defense.

A bear can become King of Poland.
A supposed Anastasia Romanov can become first Queen of Poland and later Tsarina of Russia.
A Frenchman can become King of Chile.
Austria can threaten Mexico to restore the Empire under a Habsburg empress.
The UK can turn the USA into a monarchy installing Wallis Simpson, with such lofty titles as “Great socialite”, as its queen.

And those are not even the most alt-history things you can do, they are just the meme moments.
And that’s exactly what the Silk Road Empire is meant to represent.

More alt-history paths include:
- after fifteen years of total communist control and the extermination of everyone holding different opinion, tsarist forces managing to field an army in the middle of Siberia, siphoning men and equipment away from the Red Army as they march west.
- the handful of Japanese communists launching a coup against the Emperor and the entirety of the Japanese Navy saying “ok, you won”, giving up and pledging themselves in their entirety to the Chinese emperor in Manchuria.
- The descendant of Napoleon taking power in France, turning the country back to an empire (which to be fair doesn’t seem particularly unusual for the French), and doing exactly what Napoleon did in 1800, down to recreate the Rhine Confederation after dismantling Germany.

And so forth.


You are incapable of accepting anything that doesn’t fit the party approved version of Chinese history.
And that’s the only issue here

[UN TTIC 浪]

Originally posted by Immortalis:

Originally posted by UN TTIC 浪:

We should respect historical facts rather than indulge in the fantasy that all Chinese people are nationalists. Even the more recent update concerning South America had territorial claims based on historical and cultural considerations.

The so-called "Greater Chinese Empire" you mentioned might appeal to some extreme Chinese nationalists, but that does not change the fact that this DLC is of poor quality. You're attempting to justify the current DLC by speculating that a similarly low-quality DLC might be released in the future, which is not a valid defense.

A bear can become King of Poland.
A supposed Anastasia Romanov can become first Queen of Poland and later Tsarina of Russia.
A Frenchman can become King of Chile.
Austria can threaten Mexico to restore the Empire under a Habsburg empress.
The UK can turn the USA into a monarchy installing Wallis Simpson, with such lofty titles as “Great socialite”, as its queen.

And those are not even the most alt-history things you can do, they are just the meme moments.
And that’s exactly what the Silk Road Empire is meant to represent.

More alt-history paths include:
- after fifteen years of total communist control and the extermination of everyone holding different opinion, tsarist forces managing to field an army in the middle of Siberia, siphoning men and equipment away from the Red Army as they march west.
- the handful of Japanese communists launching a coup against the Emperor and the
entirety of the Japanese Navy saying “ok, you won”, giving up and pledging themselves in their entirety to the Chinese emperor in Manchuria.
- The descendant of Napoleon taking power in France, turning the country back to an empire (which to be fair doesn’t seem particularly unusual for the French), and doing exactly what Napoleon did in 1800, down to recreate the Rhine Confederation after dismantling Germany.

And so forth.


You are incapable of accepting anything that doesn’t fit the party approved version of Chinese history.
And that’s the only issue here

Even in the most far-fetched easter egg paths, the "King Bear" actually served in Poland rather than in Denmark, and Poland at least has the potential to unify the Slavic peoples through ""Pan-Slavic nationalism.''

[UN TTIC 浪]

Originally posted by Dez:

Originally posted by UN TTIC 浪:

Yes, it's a matter of degree—ranging from "having some historical basis" to "being completely irrelevant or even overshadowing actual historical contexts."
From the **Great Nordic Empire** in the Northern Europe DLC to **India's Silk Road**, this progression perfectly illustrates that shift—from **some historical basis** to **completely irrelevant or even historically misleading concepts.**

There are indeed varying degrees of ashistoric things happening in this game. Take the Roman Empire as an example, they can core Ireland even though they (the Romans) never even set foot there. This core makes much less sense than the Indian Silk Road Empire formable, at least India (and Tibet) was historically involved in the Silk Road - Ireland wasn't involved in the Roman Empire at all.

Yes, but such cases are ultimately a small portion of the game—like the Ottoman Empire's Balkan territories, which have some degree of controversy.Rather than a complete violation of history.

You're essentially comparing the UK-Argentina dispute to India gaining a core on Shanghai, which are vastly different in scale and legitimacy. Moreover, you're attempting to dismiss criticism of a major issue by pointing to pre-existing, smaller problems, rather than addressing the fundamental concerns about this DLC's historical accuracy.

[Smart Sheep]

Originally posted by Immortalis:

they are just the meme moments.

*No, meme is culturally acceptable entertainment.*

When your "meme" incite this much response from certain culture, you can no longer call it a meme. Sure, you can talk about Chinese overreacting or whatever, but at that point you're just pushing your own standard onto another culture, which you have no right to, especially considering the core reason behind Chinese's overreaction is due to 100 years of humiliation (almost colonization) forced by western powers.

[BornToKill]

Okay, now I understand it. So it's all about hurt nationalist feelings on the part of the Chinese, especially since there have been tensions between India and China for a long time. Got it.

[Immortalis]

Originally posted by Smart Sheep:

Originally posted by Immortalis:

they are just the meme moments.

*No, meme is culturally acceptable entertainment.*

When your "meme" incite this much response from certain culture, you can no longer call it a meme. Sure, you can talk about Chinese overreacting or whatever, but at that point you're just pushing your own standard onto another culture, which you have no right to, especially considering the core reason behind Chinese's overreaction is due to 100 years of humiliation (almost colonization) forced by western powers.

You don’t have any right not to be offended by other people’s actions.
I’m sorry if someone taught you that was the case but they lied to you.

The DLC is Paradox product.
You are free to choose whether you want to buy it or not.
You are free to choose whether you want to explore some content or not (never tried Commie UK, for example, but I’ve gone down the King’s Party route plenty of times).
You are not free to dictate what other people should put in their own product.
You are not, particularly, free to threaten and blackmail other people because of what is inside that product.

Pretending that Chinese bots and party officials are offended by a meme content because of “100 years of almost colonisation” by the Western power is absurdly laughable.
The current government of the PRC is enforcing and has been enforcing a policy of complete rewriting of Chinese history so that no matter what China always comes on top and uncomfortable parts of their history are redacted and kept comfortably out of the way.

The attack on anything that goes ever so slightly against the Party line makes this censorship, not some brave stand against tyranny.