What Is Paradox Doing With Germany’s Focus Tree in HoI4????

[Pumpgun-Petrus]

I just finished my first playthrough of the new DLC with Germany, and honestly, I’m furious about the direction Paradox seems to be taking here. I usually stick to the modifiers and focus paths without paying too much attention to the "Inner Circle" mechanics, but even with that surface-level playstyle, the sheer amount of tone-deafness on display is staggering. When I started looking closer—at the portraits, the tooltips, and the mechanics—I couldn’t believe how much of it feels like an attempt to glorify figures and events that should not be glorified.

Let’s start with the little things, like Göring’s tooltip describing him as a "great German pilot" during the Great War. Why? Why does he get this glowing description when 95% of the advisors in the game don’t even get a tooltip at all? Why is this extra level of detail—and the subjective praise—necessary? It’s not just amateurish; it feels deliberate, like someone at Paradox thought, “Hey, let’s make him look cool.” And that’s just one example.

Then there’s the "Gold Reserves" mechanic. Are you kidding me? It’s such a bland, sanitized way to replace the actual historical atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht and SS. It gets even worse when you’re given the option, after the Soviet Union’s capitulation, to send "ethnic German settlers" into the East. The game conveniently forgets to mention why there’s suddenly all this space for new inhabitants. No context, no acknowledgment—just a convenient gameplay mechanic. How do you look at history and decide, “Let’s skip over the horrifying reality and turn it into a ‘feel-good’ empire-builder moment instead”?

And then there’s the Easter egg with Eva Braun. Seriously, what were they thinking? She’s portrayed as this edgy, eyepatch-wearing action movie protagonist, like she’s leading some badass revenge quest instead of, you know, being tied to one of the most evil regimes in history. It’s beyond tasteless—it’s offensive. It’s the clearest example yet of how Paradox is turning Germany into some weird power fantasy where you can just ignore everything that makes playing as them historically uncomfortable.

And that’s really the core problem, isn’t it? The game lets you play as some of the most horrifying regimes in history, but with Germany, there’s no attempt to acknowledge or reflect on that. Stalin gets mechanics that force you to deal with purges. Mussolini has incompetence baked into his path. But Germany? You’re encouraged to be an expansive, warmongering empire—but hey, that’s fine, because you’re just paying off your MEFO bills. There’s no downside, no weight to your actions, just a button that swaps "crimes against humanity" for "Gold Reserves" after every conquest. What the hell, Paradox?

I love HoI4. I love its gameplay, and the DLC mechanics are, on a purely technical level, well-executed. But playing as Germany feels wrong now. It’s not just ignorant—it’s actively trying to make you feel good about playing as one of the most destructive regimes in human history. It’s like Paradox is leaning into the power fantasy, hiding behind the excuse of “it’s just a logistics game with edgy memes,” but this isn’t Warhammer or some alternate universe. It’s history. And if you’re going to dive into that, you don’t get to ignore the uncomfortable parts just because it doesn’t fit your gameplay loop.

Am I the only one losing my mind over this? How do you defend this kind of presentation in a game that’s supposed to have some respect for history? Or is Paradox just catering to the worst parts of their fanbase now?

[Lokieys ★]

op does not even own the game, is obviously farming clowns + on an alt.

[◜ ✦ 𓂃˖ 2B ༒]

idk

[HB]

Автор сообщения: Pumpgun-Petrus

I just finished my first playthrough of the new DLC with Germany, and honestly, I’m furious about the direction Paradox seems to be taking here. I usually stick to the modifiers and focus paths without paying too much attention to the "Inner Circle" mechanics, but even with that surface-level playstyle, the sheer amount of tone-deafness on display is staggering. When I started looking closer—at the portraits, the tooltips, and the mechanics—I couldn’t believe how much of it feels like an attempt to glorify figures and events that should not be glorified.

Let’s start with the little things, like Göring’s tooltip describing him as a "great German pilot" during the Great War. Why? Why does he get this glowing description when 95% of the advisors in the game don’t even get a tooltip at all? Why is this extra level of detail—and the subjective praise—necessary? It’s not just amateurish; it feels deliberate, like someone at Paradox thought, “Hey, let’s make him look cool.” And that’s just one example.

Then there’s the "Gold Reserves" mechanic. Are you kidding me? It’s such a bland, sanitized way to replace the actual historical atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht and SS. It gets even worse when you’re given the option, after the Soviet Union’s capitulation, to send "ethnic German settlers" into the East. The game conveniently forgets to mention why there’s suddenly all this space for new inhabitants. No context, no acknowledgment—just a convenient gameplay mechanic. How do you look at history and decide, “Let’s skip over the horrifying reality and turn it into a ‘feel-good’ empire-builder moment instead”?

And then there’s the Easter egg with Eva Braun. Seriously, what were they thinking? She’s portrayed as this edgy, eyepatch-wearing action movie protagonist, like she’s leading some badass revenge quest instead of, you know, being tied to one of the most evil regimes in history. It’s beyond tasteless—it’s offensive. It’s the clearest example yet of how Paradox is turning Germany into some weird power fantasy where you can just ignore everything that makes playing as them historically uncomfortable.

And that’s really the core problem, isn’t it? The game lets you play as some of the most horrifying regimes in history, but with Germany, there’s no attempt to acknowledge or reflect on that. Stalin gets mechanics that force you to deal with purges. Mussolini has incompetence baked into his path. But Germany? You’re encouraged to be an expansive, warmongering empire—but hey, that’s fine, because you’re just paying off your MEFO bills. There’s no downside, no weight to your actions, just a button that swaps "crimes against humanity" for "Gold Reserves" after every conquest. What the hell, Paradox?

I love HoI4. I love its gameplay, and the DLC mechanics are, on a purely technical level, well-executed. But playing as Germany feels wrong now. It’s not just ignorant—it’s actively trying to make you feel good about playing as one of the most destructive regimes in human history. It’s like Paradox is leaning into the power fantasy, hiding behind the excuse of “it’s just a logistics game with edgy memes,” but this isn’t Warhammer or some alternate universe. It’s history. And if you’re going to dive into that, you don’t get to ignore the uncomfortable parts just because it doesn’t fit your gameplay loop.

Am I the only one losing my mind over this? How do you defend this kind of presentation in a game that’s supposed to have some respect for history? Or is Paradox just catering to the worst parts of their fanbase now?

Free speech is a great thing. You have an absolute right to post uniformed drivel ( revelling both a profound lack of education and critical thinking skills as well as trying to re write history, which was the funny part where you complain about others agenda, to suit your own agenda ) and farm your clown awards, personally i dont give clowns as i consider it a reward for posting nonsense.

[HB]

Автор сообщения: Pumpgun-Petrus

Ever heard of Family Share? - I got like 500hours on that game buddy.

Ever heard of hiding you profile ( since you admit now you dont own the game) so no one can see how many hours you have on game?, you have, and he was referencing your on your 4 alt name on this sock account. Do you have something to hide?. Given you dont know or understand the gold game mechanisms and what it abstracts in game, its easy to get the impression you dont own the game.

Автор сообщения: Pumpgun-Petrus

Someone hasn’t learned to control their emotions.
Can’t you provide some arguments—with reasoning—and abstain from dull insults?

There was no emotional display in what you mis read. He did not insult, he observed your level of ability and used language appropriate to it so you could comprehend, sadly he over estimated your abilities and you failed.

[El Jeffe Epstein]

Автор сообщения: Mayer

Germany was impoverished after years of inflation, civil unrest and reparation payments. The country was unprepared for the Great Depression which killed all hope of economic recovery. The fiscally conservative thing to do was Brüning's policy of harsh austerity, but the German people were unwilling to sacrifice more.

The Nazis blamed Jew and went on a crazy spending program for rearmament. The MEFO bills were a Ponzi scheme to hide a massive increase in debt.

"Gold" stands for jewish expropiations on a massive scale. Jews had to give up their personal property and jewish businesses became "Aryanized", i.e. forcibly sold and proceeds go to the state.

The reality was that the German economy was out-of whack and the illusion of wealth could only be maintained by stealing foreign goods.

And The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze is considered one of the best sources on the German war economy.

The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze is a terrible book. Tooze isnt even an economist, his studies are in economic history not business management. His book is solely the product of him reducing a historical event down to its economics and even then he gets numerous things factually incorrect. For instance Tooze is completely wrong about German production and GPD relative to other European states:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/4855867_British_and_German_Manufacturing_Productivity_Compared_A_New_Benchmark_for_193536_Based_on_Double_Deflated_Value_Added
This was released a year after Tooze's work was first published, the information was obviously accessible yet Tooze fails to use any hard (or correct) data to substantiate his thesis and is factually wrong in his claims about German manufacturing, MEFO debt, and domestic inflation.

You can find the value added to the German economy from the gold of the """""the jews""""" (a disconcertingly insensitive way to refer to a people) and from the reserves of other countries. Yet Tooze doesnt do this for some reason despite it being the central point of his thesis.
Tooze didnt even know Hacha invited Hitler in and Czechoslovakia wasnt invaded, the makes basic factual mistakes with the Munich agreement (something he does not care to explain in detail probably he has no idea what hes talking about or is just dishonest) and the German intervention in Czechoslovakia.

It is a terrible book from someone looking to make money off of a "unique" perspective on a fascinating topic. His work fits the definition of historical fiction, he isnt even an economist or a businessman, everything people have claimed (true or not) about David Irving is completely true in the case of Adam Tooze.
It is pop history for people who never studied the topic.
I am not even joking - Donald Trump could give you a more astute and nuanced view of Horace Greeley, the pamphleteer and the German economist, than Adam Tooze. Tooze doesnt even know who Horace Greeley is, or Friedrich List, or Matthew Carey, kind of important when these are the predecessors to NSDAP economic thought.
Donald Trump and Hjalmar Schacht are both students of The Wharton School ideas.
It is also worth stating Tooze literally claims Hitler and friends wanted WWII to continue despite making 200+ peace offers even going so far as to offer the full withdrawal of German troops from everywhere outside of the German borders as defined in 1937. Tooze, unsurprisingly, doesnt even know these offers were made.

stop reading pop-history. Put down "the books" and read the primary sources.

[Popsicles]

Don't play the game then.

[Delicia Suprema]

Автор сообщения: Pumpgun-Petrus

I just finished my first playthrough of the new DLC with Germany, and honestly, I’m furious about the direction Paradox seems to be taking here. I usually stick to the modifiers and focus paths without paying too much attention to the "Inner Circle" mechanics, but even with that surface-level playstyle, the sheer amount of tone-deafness on display is staggering. When I started looking closer—at the portraits, the tooltips, and the mechanics—I couldn’t believe how much of it feels like an attempt to glorify figures and events that should not be glorified.

Let’s start with the little things, like Göring’s tooltip describing him as a "great German pilot" during the Great War. Why? Why does he get this glowing description when 95% of the advisors in the game don’t even get a tooltip at all? Why is this extra level of detail—and the subjective praise—necessary? It’s not just amateurish; it feels deliberate, like someone at Paradox thought, “Hey, let’s make him look cool.” And that’s just one example.

Then there’s the "Gold Reserves" mechanic. Are you kidding me? It’s such a bland, sanitized way to replace the actual historical atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht and SS. It gets even worse when you’re given the option, after the Soviet Union’s capitulation, to send "ethnic German settlers" into the East. The game conveniently forgets to mention why there’s suddenly all this space for new inhabitants. No context, no acknowledgment—just a convenient gameplay mechanic. How do you look at history and decide, “Let’s skip over the horrifying reality and turn it into a ‘feel-good’ empire-builder moment instead”?

And then there’s the Easter egg with Eva Braun. Seriously, what were they thinking? She’s portrayed as this edgy, eyepatch-wearing action movie protagonist, like she’s leading some badass revenge quest instead of, you know, being tied to one of the most evil regimes in history. It’s beyond tasteless—it’s offensive. It’s the clearest example yet of how Paradox is turning Germany into some weird power fantasy where you can just ignore everything that makes playing as them historically uncomfortable.

And that’s really the core problem, isn’t it? The game lets you play as some of the most horrifying regimes in history, but with Germany, there’s no attempt to acknowledge or reflect on that. Stalin gets mechanics that force you to deal with purges. Mussolini has incompetence baked into his path. But Germany? You’re encouraged to be an expansive, warmongering empire—but hey, that’s fine, because you’re just paying off your MEFO bills. There’s no downside, no weight to your actions, just a button that swaps "crimes against humanity" for "Gold Reserves" after every conquest. What the hell, Paradox?

I love HoI4. I love its gameplay, and the DLC mechanics are, on a purely technical level, well-executed. But playing as Germany feels wrong now. It’s not just ignorant—it’s actively trying to make you feel good about playing as one of the most destructive regimes in human history. It’s like Paradox is leaning into the power fantasy, hiding behind the excuse of “it’s just a logistics game with edgy memes,” but this isn’t Warhammer or some alternate universe. It’s history. And if you’re going to dive into that, you don’t get to ignore the uncomfortable parts just because it doesn’t fit your gameplay loop.

Am I the only one losing my mind over this? How do you defend this kind of presentation in a game that’s supposed to have some respect for history? Or is Paradox just catering to the worst parts of their fanbase now?

Completely agree. The new germany is awful.

[Dedelblute3]

Автор сообщения: Delicia Suprema

Автор сообщения: Pumpgun-Petrus

cut for brevity

Completely agree. The new germany is awful.

Did you know that you can cut long quotes to make your replies not take up so much space?
Plus, you don't need to quote the OP in your reply, you didn't need to specify you were replying to the OP

[Segert]

Paradox was very clear that they wont ever cover war crimes or anything of the like. So what are you complaining about? This is a game about ww2. I dont understand what you are crying about. Sorry.

[Mayer]

Автор сообщения: Arthur Morgan

You can find the value added to the German economy from the gold of the """""the jews""""" (a disconcertingly insensitive way to refer to a people) and from the reserves of other countries.

They weren't considered people by the Nazis, just money bags.

Автор сообщения: Arthur Morgan

Tooze doesnt even know who Horace Greeley is, or Friedrich List, or Matthew Carey, kind of important when these are the predecessors to NSDAP economic thought.

That's just wrong. 19th century economists have nothing in common with the radicalism of National Socialist thought which rejects finance capital, interest and free markets. Hitler did not just try protectionist policies, he wanted to conquer Russia before it industrialized because he believed that was the only way to feed a growing German population.

NSDAP economy was a legacy of reckless spending and Germany was bankrupt in 1939, according to the Reichsbank memorandum.

[Leo Atreides]

While i think the outcry is stronger then it should be, paradox should have given germany the CCCP-treatment. The Nazis did kill people in their own ranks too, why not use a paranoia-mechanic for Hitler like they implemented for Stalin? When you play CCCP, you "feel" that ♥♥♥♥ is going on every time an advisor dies for example. Then there are stuff that should at least have an accurate description ("gold reserves" - this is the wealth stolen from killed jews, when "purge" is allowed to use as a foki name for cccp, why not here?) - and the inner circle should have some downsides because these people were historically incompenent. Nothingg game breaking, maybe some negative events from time to time.

The problem is not what they did, they problem ist that they did it kind of lazy and then they coated that over with nice pictures in the wrong places.

The problem is not as huge as some people try to make it, but yes they made a misstep there that could be avoided with a bit more effort (and could have resulted in more interesting game mechanics).

[DerRitter]

completely and utterly brainless take
are you people just trolling, or what?
Get the ♥♥♥♥ over it

[DerRitter]

Автор сообщения: Leo Atreides

While i think the outcry is stronger then it should be, paradox should have given germany the CCCP-treatment. The Nazis did kill people in their own ranks too, why not use a paranoia-mechanic for Hitler like they implemented for Stalin? When you play CCCP, you "feel" that ♥♥♥♥ is going on every time an advisor dies for example. Then there are stuff that should at least have an accurate description ("gold reserves" - this is the wealth stolen from killed jews, when "purge" is allowed to use as a foki name for cccp, why not here?) - and the inner circle should have some downsides because these people were historically incompenent. Nothingg game breaking, maybe some negative events from time to time.

The problem is not what they did, they problem ist that they did it kind of lazy and then they coated that over with nice pictures in the wrong places.

The problem is not as huge as some people try to make it, but yes they made a misstep there that could be avoided with a bit more effort (and could have resulted in more interesting game mechanics).

they really didn't- the majority of executions happened during the Night of the Long Knives (before the events of HOI4) or after the failure of the Valkyrie plot. There is nothing comparable to what happened in the Soviet Union.
Also, the gold reserves seized by Germany were indeed the gold reserves of conquered nations- read a damn book. Most Jewish assets were seized before the events of HOI4, and frankly did not have the impact of the national gold reserves.
And historically incompetent? No? This is utter nonsense. Sure, there were aspects at which they were incompetent, but to say that they were overall is untrue. Himmler did fine at internal security, Goebbels was good at propaganda etc. Göring was incompetent in terms of Luftwaffe management, but this is modeled- by not being able to fully reform the Luftwaffe while he is in charge.

[Lepenski Vir]

I suppose they could have an increase in the number of trains and manpower required when you are clearing the living space, but other than that there I can't think of any negatives.

[Včelí medvídek]

if you have any "respect for history" than respct it and dont demand ahistorical nonseses.