Hearts of Iron IV

Hearts of Iron IV

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ubermensch 2016 年 11 月 13 日 上午 11:09
Railway guns Tree
Adding these massive guns to the tech tree would be a great benefit strategic wise. For example they can help deal with really high level forts and clumped up units. However there can be drawbacks to them for example there really expensive and takes a great deal to maintain them, also they can be a later tier type of upgrade maybe around 1940-1941. Just an idea what do you think?
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 23 条留言
Gebatron 2016 年 11 月 13 日 上午 11:23 
I like it.
ubermensch 2016 年 11 月 13 日 上午 11:30 
引用自 Gebatron
I like it.
appreciate it, while not very conventional I feel like they should make an appearance since they were used during the war. One of the most iconic was the german railgun used at Sevastopol.
Belgian Problem 2016 年 11 月 13 日 上午 11:32 
Althought it would be cool, it simply would not have a large enough impact on the war to designate them as their own units with their own tech tree. It would be a coool mod though.
Gebatron 2016 年 11 月 13 日 上午 11:40 
Maybe a national focus instead of a full on tech tree?
exosolar 2016 年 11 月 13 日 下午 7:12 
While cool, HOI 4 is not playing to that level of detail. They could not even do correct tank trees by nation. Which is really one of the best aspects of the period, and makes one of the biggest differences in the fielded armies.
ubermensch 2016 年 11 月 13 日 下午 7:35 
引用自 exosolar
While cool, HOI 4 is not playing to that level of detail. They could not even do correct tank trees by nation. Which is really one of the best aspects of the period, and makes one of the biggest differences in the fielded armies.
i mean it wouldn't be that big of a stretch there just big guns strap to train cars. The real purpose is just to help break stalemates early instead of using atomic bombs. Especially in key spots that require getting taken like capital areas.
最后由 ubermensch 编辑于; 2016 年 11 月 13 日 下午 7:36
ubermensch 2016 年 11 月 13 日 下午 7:39 
引用自 exosolar
While cool, HOI 4 is not playing to that level of detail. They could not even do correct tank trees by nation. Which is really one of the best aspects of the period, and makes one of the biggest differences in the fielded armies.
also i aint asking for a whole section dedicated to just railway guns, just a branch on the artillery page. Similar to how you can research fighters but also research bombers in another branch of the tree.
Falaris 2016 年 11 月 13 日 下午 8:31 
Total number of railway guns were never very large, but they were impressive. One of the biggest monsters of the war, Dora, was an 80cm gun - almost twice the diameter of the guns on the Yamato. The shells carried 700 kilos of explosive; the crater from a hit was 9m wide and deep.

The K5 guns, Germany's most numerous railway gun, still only numbered 25, and were not that much bigger than regular artillery. Their larger brethren, the siegfried guns, were the same as on the battleship Bismarck.

In comparison, a typical division had 50 or so artillery pieces. That's for a single division. In the battle of Kursk, the Soviets had amassed about 20000 guns.

That's on a completely different scale.

Their one big weakness is, they're really easy to find (just follow the railways) and are fairly vulnerable to air attack. So, I guess you could have a national objective that could give you a bonus in a region as long as you had air superiority and infrastructure (good enough rails) above a certain level. Possibly work as a sort of strategic bombing of neighbouring regions? It wouldn't have much battlefield effect, though.
GOT_NO_SKILLZ 2016 年 11 月 14 日 上午 12:47 
Adding these massive guns to the tech tree would be a great benefit strategic wise.

How so? Show me the data to support your hypothesis.

Just for ♥♥♥♥♥ and giggles, you could add a tech line off of artillery, similar to how superheavy tanks branch from heavy tanks. Research would yield both an insanely-expensive line artillery unit, and something akin to a guided rocket site for strategic bombardment. But it's pretty much just a gimmick.
traumspieler 2016 年 11 月 14 日 上午 7:28 
It would be of ZERO benefit strategy wise.
Like in real life.
最后由 traumspieler 编辑于; 2016 年 11 月 14 日 上午 7:28
ubermensch 2016 年 11 月 14 日 上午 7:39 
Ok by that logic then what would be the point of producing other types of equipment, like battleships for example? There also super expensive and resource needy and prob could be substituted for a various amount of other stuff to compensate for the lack of it. The point is railway guns would provide an alternative to have a super heavy weapon that can be used for breakthrough of forts and heavy stacks of troops or defense.

Hell I'm not suggesting you equip it into specific divisions, Instead I want them to be separate entities that you could attach to the army and serve as a universal support role, and having the ability to direct it to specific targets for bombardment.
GOT_NO_SKILLZ 2016 年 11 月 14 日 下午 8:36 
引用自 ubermensch
Ok by that logic then what would be the point of producing other types of equipment, like battleships for example? There also super expensive and resource needy and prob could be substituted for a various amount of other stuff to compensate for the lack of it.

Perhaps you didn't notice, but by the end of the war....the world's naval powers stopped building battleships. Institutional inertia and tactical repurposing (they went from being the decisive arm of naval warfare to carrier AA escorts and shore bombardment) kept them around during the fighting. No point in throwing away assets you've already paid for while you still have a war to fight.


The point is railway guns would provide an alternative to have a super heavy weapon that can be used for breakthrough of forts and heavy stacks of troops or defense.
Hell I'm not suggesting you equip it into specific divisions, Instead I want them to be separate entities that you could attach to the army and serve as a universal support role, and having the ability to direct it to specific targets for bombardment.

Schwerer Gustav weighed 1,350 tons. If we assume the production cost ~= to the per-ton cost of a Tiger II at 70 tons (and this is probably a low-end estimate).... 1350 / 70 = 19.28 or production equal to roughly one in-game battalion of Heavy Tanks....For ONE railway gun. Only 2 were made, and only Gustav saw significant use (2 weeks reducing forts at Sevastopol).

For comparison, in-game-equivalent production numbers of the equally-strategically-insignificant (but easier to code) German, Soviet, and US Superheavy Tanks:

Germany: 0 (2 prototypes of Panzer VIII Maus)
Soviets: 17 battalions (350 IS-3 produced during the war, none saw combat)
US: 0 (2 prototypes of T-28)

Bottom line: I would in no way expect the devs to allocate precious time/energy to implement superheavy artillery (which would function similar to a rocket site, with the ability to do strategic bombardment). If you want it, you'll probably have to mod it yourself.
ubermensch 2016 年 11 月 14 日 下午 9:32 
Obviously the production costs didn't stop alot of the major nations to produce them Germany, England, US, Italy (really only in ww1) and France, mainly as costal guns. In-game numbers can be adjusted to allow production of some of these guns to make them an available piece of equipment, while keeping the historical accuracy of keeping them in a limited quantity. As well as add a high upkeep requirement in order for these guns to remain viable and add another layer of historical accuracy.

Super heavy arty while very limited ability to it still maintained a presence in both World wars. So to say that Paradox shouldn't or wouldn't bother simply because you think its an unnecessary component is pretty short sighted.
GOT_NO_SKILLZ 2016 年 11 月 14 日 下午 10:05 
引用自 ubermensch
Obviously the production costs didn't stop alot of the major nations to produce them Germany, England, US, Italy (really only in ww1) and France, mainly as costal guns.

Coastal guns != superheavy field artillery. The different nature of their employment necessitates a different cost-benefit analysis.

Super heavy arty while very limited ability to it still maintained a presence in both World wars. So to say that Paradox shouldn't or wouldn't bother simply because you think its an unnecessary component is pretty short sighted.

Nor does your pet fascination with big guns equate to a requirement for tasking limited developer assets (primarily time aka man-hours), especially given the current state of the game. Is it a nice to have, maybe two years down the line? Sure. In the interim, don't expect to see it as a priority from the devs, and if you are so interested in this subject......mod it.
Swesal 2016 年 11 月 14 日 下午 10:08 
download blackice mod, problem solved.
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发帖日期: 2016 年 11 月 13 日 上午 11:09
回复数: 23