How viable are Super Heavy Battleships?

[Belgian Problem]

Been thinking of using them as Germany in mutliplayer, mainly just to dump all your dockyards into something then surprise the enemy with a hard target.

[Guara Ookami]

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1228260120
If you want in the comment section a friend of mine posted some damage that he did with a SHBB
Also hello belgian long time we dont see.

[Pumba70]

Relevant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB3BekaAaO4

[Popeye]

When it comes to ships that shoot at each other, that's not including aircraft carriers, the heavier the better. The Super Heavy beats the Battleship which beats the Battlecruiser and so on as you go down. People like to claim that submarines are supposed to counter the biggest ships with their armor piercing torpedoes, but it never happens. Submarines are way too slow, they never get into range. If you only ever build the biggest ship you can, you can never lose. You might lose ships here and there, but you'll retain dominance purely because the enemy can't damage you. The armor characteristic from land combat, half damage and half organization damage, also applies to naval combat and no ship in the game save for the armor-ignoring torpedoes can pierce the Super Heavy's armor. If you were Germany and you wanted naval dominance of the English Channel: build only battleships. Put them in one fleet and sit on the channel.

If there are only battleships in the fleet, they lack the capability to engage submarines so they will immediately retreat when they encounter one alone. If you have them in high repair priority, they will retreat before they suffer much damage and they've such a massive hp pool and armor values that killing them is rare and you will ALWAYS do more damage than you take. Give them fighter cover if you can, obviously. Keep them near the coast for best results until you have a truly massive navy.

This is ignoring Carriers, obviously, which are inherently superior. Build a fleet containing both, with an emphasis on the battleships for tanks, and you'll always win.

[Dankmaster]

Originally posted by Oplindenfep:

When it comes to ships that shoot at each other, that's not including aircraft carriers, the heavier the better. The Super Heavy beats the Battleship which beats the Battlecruiser and so on as you go down. People like to claim that submarines are supposed to counter the biggest ships with their armor piercing torpedoes, but it never happens. Submarines are way too slow, they never get into range. If you only ever build the biggest ship you can, you can never lose. You might lose ships here and there, but you'll retain dominance purely because the enemy can't damage you. The armor characteristic from land combat, half damage and half organization damage, also applies to naval combat and no ship in the game save for the armor-ignoring torpedoes can pierce the Super Heavy's armor. If you were Germany and you wanted naval dominance of the English Channel: build only battleships. Put them in one fleet and sit on the channel.

If there are only battleships in the fleet, they lack the capability to engage submarines so they will immediately retreat when they encounter one alone. If you have them in high repair priority, they will retreat before they suffer much damage and they've such a massive hp pool and armor values that killing them is rare and you will ALWAYS do more damage than you take. Give them fighter cover if you can, obviously. Keep them near the coast for best results until you have a truly massive navy.

This is ignoring Carriers, obviously, which are inherently superior. Build a fleet containing both, with an emphasis on the battleships for tanks, and you'll always win.

but battleships need support ships though, otherwise they become easy targets and you end up wasting the years you spent building the battleships

[Popeye]

Originally posted by Dankmaster:

but battleships need support ships though, otherwise they become easy targets and you end up wasting the years you spent building the battleships

They don't actually need support ships. If you focus solely on battleships or superheavies, you'll have so many that you'll blow up pretty much everything. Again remember the armor mechanic: unless they're higher tier battleships, they will be doing piddly ♥♥♥♥ for damage. And your repair speeds will be rather rapid because with such a concentrated fleet you'll have low numbers. Go with the Fleet in Being doctrine to give them bonuses. Honestly, the times I've used Super Heavy battleships the only times I actually 'lose' combat is when my ships run out of organization, and so retreat. But even when retreating they have armor, and the massive hp pool, so they rarely die. With high repair priority ships tend to retreat at 90% hp, more than enough time to get out of the way before they die. You 'can' support them, but there's really no point. Ships shoot at the closest target, which is always screening vessels. But once those are dead they focus on the big targets, the battleships. conversely, battleships can actually take way more damage and stay floating than any screening vessel. You'll actually be saving yourself production because you won't be building screen vessels that tend to die rapidly anyway.

[GenericArchangel]

Originally posted by Oplindenfep:

Originally posted by Dankmaster:

but battleships need support ships though, otherwise they become easy targets and you end up wasting the years you spent building the battleships

They don't actually need support ships. If you focus solely on battleships or superheavies, you'll have so many that you'll blow up pretty much everything. Again remember the armor mechanic: unless they're higher tier battleships, they will be doing piddly ♥♥♥♥ for damage. And your repair speeds will be rather rapid because with such a concentrated fleet you'll have low numbers. Go with the Fleet in Being doctrine to give them bonuses. Honestly, the times I've used Super Heavy battleships the only times I actually 'lose' combat is when my ships run out of organization, and so retreat. But even when retreating they have armor, and the massive hp pool, so they rarely die. With high repair priority ships tend to retreat at 90% hp, more than enough time to get out of the way before they die. You 'can' support them, but there's really no point. Ships shoot at the closest target, which is always screening vessels. But once those are dead they focus on the big targets, the battleships. conversely, battleships can actually take way more damage and stay floating than any screening vessel. You'll actually be saving yourself production because you won't be building screen vessels that tend to die rapidly anyway.

I know you already said they need carriers, but I feel like more emphasis must be placed on that. Yeah, the SBBs can take out any surface ship, but they have almost no AA abilities. Carrier fighters should keep them safe, or, if it's feasible, use land based fighters to provide cover.

If you only have enough dockyards for CVs or SBBs though, I would focus on the CVs unless you know there will be enough land-based coverage. Failure to provide adequate fighter cover is what killed the Yamato, and it'll kill your ships, too.

[Pumba70]

Originally posted by Gabriel:

Originally posted by Oplindenfep:

They don't actually need support ships. If you focus solely on battleships or superheavies, you'll have so many that you'll blow up pretty much everything. Again remember the armor mechanic: unless they're higher tier battleships, they will be doing piddly ♥♥♥♥ for damage. And your repair speeds will be rather rapid because with such a concentrated fleet you'll have low numbers. Go with the Fleet in Being doctrine to give them bonuses. Honestly, the times I've used Super Heavy battleships the only times I actually 'lose' combat is when my ships run out of organization, and so retreat. But even when retreating they have armor, and the massive hp pool, so they rarely die. With high repair priority ships tend to retreat at 90% hp, more than enough time to get out of the way before they die. You 'can' support them, but there's really no point. Ships shoot at the closest target, which is always screening vessels. But once those are dead they focus on the big targets, the battleships. conversely, battleships can actually take way more damage and stay floating than any screening vessel. You'll actually be saving yourself production because you won't be building screen vessels that tend to die rapidly anyway.

I know you already said they need carriers, but I feel like more emphasis must be placed on that. Yeah, the SBBs can take out any surface ship, but they have almost no AA abilities. Carrier fighters should keep them safe, or, if it's feasible, use land based fighters to provide cover.

If you only have enough dockyards for CVs or SBBs though, I would focus on the CVs unless you know there will be enough land-based coverage. Failure to provide adequate fighter cover is what killed the Yamato, and it'll kill your ships, too.

But aren't land-based aircraft limited to 1 attack in a naval battle or something? I remember Reman saying something about that, but the whole system is so convoluted its hard to make heads or tails of.

[GenericArchangel]

Originally posted by Pumba70:

Originally posted by Gabriel:

I know you already said they need carriers, but I feel like more emphasis must be placed on that. Yeah, the SBBs can take out any surface ship, but they have almost no AA abilities. Carrier fighters should keep them safe, or, if it's feasible, use land based fighters to provide cover.

If you only have enough dockyards for CVs or SBBs though, I would focus on the CVs unless you know there will be enough land-based coverage. Failure to provide adequate fighter cover is what killed the Yamato, and it'll kill your ships, too.

But aren't land-based aircraft limited to 1 attack in a naval battle or something? I remember Reman saying something about that, but the whole system is so convoluted its hard to make heads or tails of.

Maybe, but land-based fighters are better than carrier fighters, and heavy fighters will kill any navy bombers.

[chaosguy]

@Belgian - amusing suggestions above of building dozens of them aside, building a couple if you have the resources and are going against either Japan or USA is an okay investment as you'll clear the seas with them faster. More than that really isn't necessary as if you have the resources to go nuts in that way, you''ve got the resources to build a large heavy cruiser fleet where you can shug off losses and sink whatever you face anyhow, with the bonus of being able to get it built faster.
You don't really need them against European navies, as though they start strong, they usually get ground down fast enough regardless.

[The Freedom Man]

If I'm a nation without too many naval dockyards, I just go with building massive fleets of submarines. If you can build one, I'd just stick to building multiple heavy/battle cruisers instead of one super-heavy battleship

[Mikey]

Originally posted by Avaron27:

If I'm a nation without too many naval dockyards, I just go with building massive fleets of submarines. If you can build one, I'd just stick to building multiple heavy/battle cruisers instead of one super-heavy battleship

1 SBB will annihilate 20 CA/BCs. Cruisers aren't worth building at all.
The CL has the best AA defenses but an all out CL fleet will still get pummeled by a couple CVs.
The CA will destroy a CL fleet but in turn gets sunk very easily by anything bigger.
The BCs are much like the CAs except they MIGHT damage a BB in the fight. They are unlikely to sink them though.

Subs are great for getting naval dominance but are too slow to have any impact on a battle
BBs and SBBs are great at knocking out ships.
CVs are godlike. Any fleet with CVs are likely to destroy the enemy
Destroyers are nice throwaways to stick into a a CV fleet that is likely to face subs. They will die easily but having just 1 destroyer means your CVs won't disengage immediately and instead sink the enemy subs from range.

[Mack]

4 CV's in a fleet stacked with the Carrier bonuses (which when building the carriers, make sure you add about 30% extra planes to them) are devestating.

Once you have 4 CV's per fleet, then build 2 SHBB's per fleet, and then just keep adding destroyers to bulk up.

[Person of Interest]

The video that Pumba70 lists is quite depressing to me. No reason to build anything but BB and CV. Overhaul of naval mechanics is a necessity...

[Pumba70]

Originally posted by Person of Interest:

The video that Pumba70 lists is quite depressing to me. No reason to build anything but BB and CV. Overhaul of naval mechanics is a necessity...

You just have to wait for the Naval Combat DLC ;)

[Person of Interest]

That's okay. Just be up front about how naval combat is lacking currently, Paradox.