FFXIV Has A Massive Community Problem

[Aesthetic]

I've been playing FFXIV since the 2.0 Beta back in middle school. The game has gone through countless states since then, some good, some bad, most mixed.

Evercold looks to create a new state, highly shaking up the combat formula (highly in square enix terms..) and changing a lot of the game in an attempt to bring player numbers back up after a pretty steady decline throughout Dawntrail. There have been hundreds or thousands of feedback posts detailing all of the gameplay problems, story problems, ect, but I think all of those mean nothing in comparison to the real actual problem that is, and will continue to, tear the game apart unless addressed, and I fear its not addressable at this point.

Throughout the game's entire life, we've always had casual players, every game does, and they make up a majority of the playerbase. But back then, pre-covid, a "casual" was a **gamer** who just didn't care as much about competition or had less time to play, but that didn't mean they were objectively useless in game, or feared game systems, or hated anything that challenged them. This allowed new systems to be added to the game to make the whole (almost) community happy a lot of the time, everyone can engage with them.

Now, here we are post-covid. The majority of the game's playerbase are non-gamers and FFXIV is their first and only video game. They hate ANY challenge, even a guaranteed win, the idea that they **could** fail is too much for these players and there can NEVER be content outside of EX+ in which you can fail, or they will **lose their minds to the Nth degree**. These players also have zero respect for the world of FFXIV and the decade of worldbuilding that went into it, flooding the team with requests for polo shirts, joggers, levi jeans, hoodies, and other modern attire, completely destroying the continuity of the game world. These players also HATE that there *are* players who actually enjoy the game, want to do the content, and want to get better, they call them "insects", "fat losers", ect on and on.

So now we have a situation where a small remaining number of gamers who want the game to have cool new content and systems are clashing with the majority of players who just want to ERP, HATE that dev time is spent on content that isn't ERP or a visual novel, and **despise** the people who *do* like content, meaning that no matter what the dev team does at this point it will go badly until all of the remaining veterans or gone, or they excise this newer playerbase that doesn't really want a video game.

I don't think theres a clear way to fix this without just giving in, deleting all of the combat content, converting the msq into a true visual novel, and then catering to those players since they now make up a majority and square will never slash their profits by so much just for artistic integrity.

tl;dr FFXIV the MMO is effectively dead and isn't coming back, expect the game to slide more and more into IMVU and Second Life territory and away from the Final Fantasy MMO you fell in love with.

[Chashmodai]

unhinged rant. nothing in it lines up with reality

[Aesthetic]

Originally posted by Chashmodai:

unhinged rant. nothing in it lines up with reality

Found one of the ERP players it would seem lol.

[Halicor]

unhinged rant. nothing in it lines up with reality

[Aesthetic]

Hey they're coming out in force! Anyway since nothing in it lines up with reality can someone explain to me why In From the Cold had to be basically removed? Or why BLM had to be reworked into current Summoner with all risk removed? Anyone have any clue why Summoner got changed to a 1 button class? Why does it seem like post-covid every single update that features any difficulty is ♥♥♥♥ on by the community, and every design change that removes skill from the game is celebrated, when that wasn't the case before?

[Vlad Krapula]

The old 14 died in EW. Shb changes fundamentally changed the game to a completely new thing and ew finished (ruined) the old story. But yes the world cohesion etc has been thrown out of the window since then.
I would advice anyone with an active forum account to make a post that they want a classic server if they want the old gameplay and systems back. And I'm talking about arr not 1.0. 1.0 is not happening but 2.0 is very easy for them to setup because you can do it yourself if you have the old arr disk.

[Halicor]

Originally posted by Aesthetic:

Hey they're coming out in force! Anyway since nothing in it lines up with reality can someone explain to me why In From the Cold had to be basically removed? Or why BLM had to be reworked into current Summoner with all risk removed? Anyone have any clue why Summoner got changed to a 1 button class? Why does it seem like post-covid every single update that features any difficulty is ♥♥♥♥ on by the community, and every design change that removes skill from the game is celebrated, when that wasn't the case before?

Glad to, homie. They've been slowly tinkering on core combat design ever since around Endwalker, which you can track on their comments after releasing P12S and seeing the relatively low clear-rate on that as well as DSR/TOP and how massively more difficult those two turned out.

In those encounters you can also see that certain jobs are massively shafted due to their kit (for example, Black Mage massively underperforming in FRU due to high downtime favoring PCT), which has now resulted in Evercold redesigning those from the ground up both to untangle job design from the 2-minute meta, as well as to create a new common ground given we got a slew of new jobs. The reworks from, for example, Summoner, aren't good. They're a symptom of antiquated class design that has been bloated not due to necessarily oversimplification, but by each expansion adding new buttons to their kit while newer jobs remain condensed.

Pray tell me where the gooner ruling class is oppressing the "real content enjoyers" when Savage in Dawntrail has been received both pretty well in terms of design as well as broad difficulty, or how come the recent Ultimates from DSR through now UMAD are also high up. Could it be.. no.. it couldn't.. that you played since.. 20 A.C. Alpha Tester and have not touched those?

This is content, too, that roleplayers likely could not care less about. As annoying as venue spam and the like is, those are the last people that will talk to you about core combat design. Completely separate communities, completely separate playstyles which both deserve their spot.

Since EW, we have received Chaotic, 2 more Deep Dungeons, Quantum, Variant, and BST. All content varying from small-scale to big-scale; varying from EX difficulty to approximately Savage and harder, with EC putting forth a core job redesign and more difficulty flexibility front and center.

What exactly do you want

[causality]

He's right you know.

[Lixire]

Casual players who do nothing but the MSQ or those who don't even engage with that and just talk in limsa all day long were always there.
MMOs for some people are their "social media" in a sense and I don't see it as a problem. You can just... not engage with it lmao

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Lixire:

Casual players who do nothing but the MSQ or those who don't even engage with that and just talk in limsa all day long were always there.
MMOs for some people are their "social media" in a sense and I don't see it as a problem. You can just... not engage with it lmao

but what will we do if they are having fun wrong? WHAT WILL WE DO?

[Gentle Nobody]

One of my friend that still plays said there was a good influx of new players coming from Console Dimension. Can't have everything we like on a game that tries to appeal the broadest possible audience.

Either we take it or go to the land of ancient lords to find (gamer) solace.

[Vackbar (UE4 Legacy)]

Originally posted by Vlad Krapula:

The old 14 died in EW. Shb changes fundamentally changed the game to a completely new thing and ew finished (ruined) the old story. But yes the world cohesion etc has been thrown out of the window since then.
I would advice anyone with an active forum account to make a post that they want a classic server if they want the old gameplay and systems back. And I'm talking about arr not 1.0. 1.0 is not happening but 2.0 is very easy for them to setup because you can do it yourself if you have the old arr disk.

A lot of the changes likely originate from 2016 in terms of leadership decisions and resulting change in personnel and expectations. While the disastrous Blizzard hires might finally have been gone last year, their legacy of having steered the ship for years remains.

The original poster is 100% correct, the game changed, the community changed, the game changed, the community changed.

We're at a majority of those playing are addicts not gamers.

Making XIV a game again would be disastrous.

I do not see a classic getting much traction, people do want new (Good ) things, and it wouldn't be new. It's time for an entirely new thing for the audience that was left behind.

There used to be variety in the game, things for different people.

Guilds had dedicated crafters, often disabled people not very good at combat.

There is no putting that mess back in the bottle with modern XIV botting, and a classic won't be the same because the same bot things that allow non players non gamers that make XIV boring can just happen all over again with tools already developed.

XIV has been changed into a perverse church/religion with bot gods handing out gifts.

There is no going back to being a hobby; something to help people improve their lives like it used to be. I've stopped trying to think about what to do to fix it for exactly the reasons the original poster has typed out.

[Vlad Krapula]

Originally posted by Vackbar (UE4 Legacy):

...

I mean classic versions have now worked for multiple different games and from what I'v seen and heard about current 14 especially if evercold changes are exactly as I think arr classic would not be a bad idea for the players and the company. I would take it any day compared to the current game just to get the gameplay and systems back and as I said this would be very easy for them to implement.

[Aesthetic]

Originally posted by Halicor:

Originally posted by Aesthetic:

Hey they're coming out in force! Anyway since nothing in it lines up with reality can someone explain to me why In From the Cold had to be basically removed? Or why BLM had to be reworked into current Summoner with all risk removed? Anyone have any clue why Summoner got changed to a 1 button class? Why does it seem like post-covid every single update that features any difficulty is ♥♥♥♥ on by the community, and every design change that removes skill from the game is celebrated, when that wasn't the case before?

Glad to, homie. They've been slowly tinkering on core combat design ever since around Endwalker, which you can track on their comments after releasing P12S and seeing the relatively low clear-rate on that as well as DSR/TOP and how massively more difficult those two turned out.

In those encounters you can also see that certain jobs are massively shafted due to their kit (for example, Black Mage massively underperforming in FRU due to high downtime favoring PCT), which has now resulted in Evercold redesigning those from the ground up both to untangle job design from the 2-minute meta, as well as to create a new common ground given we got a slew of new jobs. The reworks from, for example, Summoner, aren't good. They're a symptom of antiquated class design that has been bloated not due to necessarily oversimplification, but by each expansion adding new buttons to their kit while newer jobs remain condensed.

Pray tell me where the gooner ruling class is oppressing the "real content enjoyers" when Savage in Dawntrail has been received both pretty well in terms of design as well as broad difficulty, or how come the recent Ultimates from DSR through now UMAD are also high up. Could it be.. no.. it couldn't.. that you played since.. 20 A.C. Alpha Tester and have not touched those?

This is content, too, that roleplayers likely could not care less about. As annoying as venue spam and the like is, those are the last people that will talk to you about core combat design. Completely separate communities, completely separate playstyles which both deserve their spot.

Since EW, we have received Chaotic, 2 more Deep Dungeons, Quantum, Variant, and BST. All content varying from small-scale to big-scale; varying from EX difficulty to approximately Savage and harder, with EC putting forth a core job redesign and more difficulty flexibility front and center.

What exactly do you want

Thank you for actually responding! This tier was awesome, it was the first tier that really pushed me and my static since Eden. This isn't about there not being content for us, the problem is that savage is done in a month or two max and the rest of the game is designed for the lowest common denominator, which in my opinion has gone far below the minimum expected level of skill, creating a scenario where outside of savage and ultimate the entire rest of the game feels cardboard. Im not saying we need savage MSQ quests or fates, but the current minimum accepted level of engagement is unacceptable but the current playerbase loves it. I miss when doing a fate could actually be kind of fun because it was dangerous, or going into a new dungeon and not feeling like im in a guided story quest without a fail state

[Halicor]

Originally posted by Aesthetic:

Originally posted by Halicor:

Glad to, homie. They've been slowly tinkering on core combat design ever since around Endwalker, which you can track on their comments after releasing P12S and seeing the relatively low clear-rate on that as well as DSR/TOP and how massively more difficult those two turned out.

In those encounters you can also see that certain jobs are massively shafted due to their kit (for example, Black Mage massively underperforming in FRU due to high downtime favoring PCT), which has now resulted in Evercold redesigning those from the ground up both to untangle job design from the 2-minute meta, as well as to create a new common ground given we got a slew of new jobs. The reworks from, for example, Summoner, aren't good. They're a symptom of antiquated class design that has been bloated not due to necessarily oversimplification, but by each expansion adding new buttons to their kit while newer jobs remain condensed.

Pray tell me where the gooner ruling class is oppressing the "real content enjoyers" when Savage in Dawntrail has been received both pretty well in terms of design as well as broad difficulty, or how come the recent Ultimates from DSR through now UMAD are also high up. Could it be.. no.. it couldn't.. that you played since.. 20 A.C. Alpha Tester and have not touched those?

This is content, too, that roleplayers likely could not care less about. As annoying as venue spam and the like is, those are the last people that will talk to you about core combat design. Completely separate communities, completely separate playstyles which both deserve their spot.

Since EW, we have received Chaotic, 2 more Deep Dungeons, Quantum, Variant, and BST. All content varying from small-scale to big-scale; varying from EX difficulty to approximately Savage and harder, with EC putting forth a core job redesign and more difficulty flexibility front and center.

What exactly do you want

Thank you for actually responding! This tier was awesome, it was the first tier that really pushed me and my static since Eden. This isn't about there not being content for us, the problem is that savage is done in a month or two max and the rest of the game is designed for the lowest common denominator, which in my opinion has gone far below the minimum expected level of skill, creating a scenario where outside of savage and ultimate the entire rest of the game feels cardboard. Im not saying we need savage MSQ quests or fates, but the current minimum accepted level of engagement is unacceptable but the current playerbase loves it. I miss when doing a fate could actually be kind of fun because it was dangerous, or going into a new dungeon and not feeling like im in a guided story quest without a fail state

This is a different criticism to your OP though, and I do agree with this broadly. One issue with FF14 is that the difficulty from ARR through to DT largely remains stagnant so as to be able for people to join in, play the MSQ with minimal involvement, and then drop out.

This makes the experience on patchday or on the content immediately adjacent to the MSQ (Extremes / Entry level Savage) miserable, because the baseline difficulty of the MSQ is nonexistant and EX etc. is similarly too easy for established players, but uncomfortable enough for single players to be able to keep a group down.

In my opinion, this either needs a rework of the Storm, Earth & Sky, necessitating its completion for any content past the MSQ, or raising the post- MSQ quest difficulty. I.e., the Trials after the Main Story should be more difficult, possibly Extreme level difficulty. They're easy enough already that any PF group can clear them for the first time within an hour or two, and I think this can, and should be expected from players who already spent hundreds of hours going through the game at this point.

That all being said, this is completely separated from the previously mentioned points and more so a design decision of whether you want people to be able to play FF XIV solely for its story delivery. I wish I was playing a game in which that answer could both be yes, but still retain an expectation that players learn the very basics of their job and the game they are playing but this is not an issue based around Dawntrail, based around roleplayers, or based around the core difficulty design of the game.

[Vackbar (UE4 Legacy)]

Originally posted by Aesthetic:

Originally posted by Halicor:

Glad to, homie. They've been slowly tinkering on core combat design ever since around Endwalker, which you can track on their comments after releasing P12S and seeing the relatively low clear-rate on that as well as DSR/TOP and how massively more difficult those two turned out.

In those encounters you can also see that certain jobs are massively shafted due to their kit (for example, Black Mage massively underperforming in FRU due to high downtime favoring PCT), which has now resulted in Evercold redesigning those from the ground up both to untangle job design from the 2-minute meta, as well as to create a new common ground given we got a slew of new jobs. The reworks from, for example, Summoner, aren't good. They're a symptom of antiquated class design that has been bloated not due to necessarily oversimplification, but by each expansion adding new buttons to their kit while newer jobs remain condensed.

Pray tell me where the gooner ruling class is oppressing the "real content enjoyers" when Savage in Dawntrail has been received both pretty well in terms of design as well as broad difficulty, or how come the recent Ultimates from DSR through now UMAD are also high up. Could it be.. no.. it couldn't.. that you played since.. 20 A.C. Alpha Tester and have not touched those?

This is content, too, that roleplayers likely could not care less about. As annoying as venue spam and the like is, those are the last people that will talk to you about core combat design. Completely separate communities, completely separate playstyles which both deserve their spot.

Since EW, we have received Chaotic, 2 more Deep Dungeons, Quantum, Variant, and BST. All content varying from small-scale to big-scale; varying from EX difficulty to approximately Savage and harder, with EC putting forth a core job redesign and more difficulty flexibility front and center.

What exactly do you want

Thank you for actually responding! This tier was awesome, it was the first tier that really pushed me and my static since Eden. This isn't about there not being content for us, the problem is that savage is done in a month or two max and the rest of the game is designed for the lowest common denominator, which in my opinion has gone far below the minimum expected level of skill, creating a scenario where outside of savage and ultimate the entire rest of the game feels cardboard. Im not saying we need savage MSQ quests or fates, but the current minimum accepted level of engagement is unacceptable but the current playerbase loves it. I miss when doing a fate could actually be kind of fun because it was dangerous, or going into a new dungeon and not feeling like im in a guided story quest without a fail state

I am not a raider, I like engaging dungeons.

They haven't made an engaging dungeon since Shadow Bringers went live.

They've been going through the old ones and making them just like the boring Shadow Bringers one.

I enjoy good casual games, but current form is not only casual but boring.

It's a set go to XY at the time for pretty much everything, so the easy NPC bots can handle it.

The "rotation" is sometimes even more boring than just follow the flashing buttons.

It doesn't have to be hard, but I do want some engagement.

There was more reason to look at and interact with party members prior to SHB slowly making it into a game for NPC's instead of people.