Did They Lie?

[Warm Fuzzies™]

Or am i just missing something? Bethesda says they "removed" the level cap. However, all L10 Perks require level 50.....and nothing higher....

Even if that is just a soft cap....it is still a cap all the same. So what gives?

Makes me worry that the first DLC will just be adding new perks to make up for the serious lack of anything better to do.

My main character is lvl 47. Playing on VH difficulty (because the way the handled survival is just dumb). The build I have right now basically revolves around a command playstyle. Rushing in, taking cover, lobbing grenades, and marking enemies with my auto-♥♥♥♥-rifle and blowing them away. Or, in the case of feral ghouls of any kind, one-shotting them with Last Stand.

Ok...so there is no hard level cap. Enemies will scale with you forever....apparently they forgot to scale the perk system to mirror that.

Dont get me wrong, good game in my opinion, has its flaws (as does every single game ever made) but after spending 120$ for the game, and the most expensive piece of plastic ive ever owned (which I love), I will be extremely pissed off if all we get from any one DLC is a few new perks.

[BlackWolf9988]

there is no level cap

[LordBlade]

There's no level cap. 50 is the highest you need to access a perk, but you get a perk point every level, so if you keep leveling you'll eventually unlock everything.

[Warm Fuzzies™]

Originally posted by BlackWolf9988:

there is no level cap

Originally posted by LordBlade:

There's no level cap. 50 is the highest you need to access a perk, but you get a perk point every level, so if you keep leveling you'll eventually unlock everything.

You are both missing my point.

The point here is that you can level up infinitely, but have only a finite amount of perks to choose from. Say you do get to level 256 and get every perk. Now what hmm? If you keep leveling, enemies level as well. However, once you are past that point, you have no perks to pick. This is once again a SOFT cap. It is a soft cap, because no matter how high above it you go in levels, your gameplay will NEVER change, due to a lack of any perk(s) that go beyond needing level 50 to get.

[Alucard †]

the fact that high tier perks all require level 50
dosent mean that you will get them all instantly you hit level 50 .....
you need like 200+ level to get all perks

which you can in this game
there is no level cap

simple

[Chop]

Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies:

Originally posted by BlackWolf9988:

there is no level cap

Originally posted by LordBlade:

There's no level cap. 50 is the highest you need to access a perk, but you get a perk point every level, so if you keep leveling you'll eventually unlock everything.

You are both missing my point.

The point here is that you can level up infinitely, but have only a finite amount of perks to choose from. Say you do get to level 256 and get every perk. Now what hmm? If you keep leveling, enemies level as well. However, once you are past that point, you have no perks to pick. This is once again a SOFT cap. It is a soft cap, because no matter how high above it you go in levels, your gameplay will NEVER change, due to a lack of any perk(s) that go beyond needing level 50 to get.

You still get a HP increase each level plus mods will give us infinite perks :D

[Ogami]

Yeah the amount of exp you need for a level up gets insane over level 150 or so. It would take many many hundreds of hours to max out your character.
So no, they did not lie. I think 99,99999% of all players will lose interest long before they reach max perk level.

[Purgatorian]

Maybe they will end up releasing a patch, like they did with Skyrims legendary system, that allow you to reset the perks and choose them again for an increase in cost like 3 skill points to re-acquire the skill essentially doubling what it does. Obviously they can't do this with them all, such as damage reduction, otherwise you would be totally invincible.

I do hope with each DLC a new tier of perks become available though, or even an addition of magazines that add new upgradable perks once found.

[^3Tinkles]

I understand where you are coming from. It's a sort of power creep that is relatively common in games. As of right now no one can really answer your question. Sure you can level past the 'maximum level' which is basically the level you have all the perks, assuming you have the endurance to reach that level. The highest I've reached so far was 219. On my 3rd character, currently on my fourth.

No idea how they are going to handle the perks and power creep in the future, it definitely will be hard to keep playing if we don't have more quests to do, plus it would be nice if perks were more spread out on levels, maybe some going into the very early triple digits. But, out of all the perks there are right now, I don't see a perk that is worth scaling into the higher levels. And even if there was, most won't reach that level because there isn't truly enough content. You literally have to grind fetch/kill/rescue missions from the minutemen, or do the BoS/RR repeat quests over and over. Which, in my opinion, if a game does that. It shows the lack of content (not saying Fo4 won't keep you entertained for 100-200 hours) but after that point, you sort of have to squeeze out the entertainment.


I also hope they make it in the future where if you want to rebuild in a settlement, that you can move all the settlers out of bounds while building, so that they don't get in your way. Sadly, that is the main reason for me making 4 characters -.-.

[Renovartio]

Originally posted by Bashful:

Maybe they will end up releasing a patch, like they did with Skyrims legendary system, that allow you to reset the perks and choose them again for an increase in cost like 3 skill points to re-acquire the skill essentially doubling what it does. Obviously they can't do this with them all, such as damage reduction, otherwise you would be totally invincible.

I do hope with each DLC a new tier of perks become available though, or even an addition of magazines that add new upgradable perks once found.

I hope not

[Peter Pan]

No level cap just means you can keep playing and leveling, up till 200+.

[TurboQuest]

Are you seriously going to play till you hit lvl 256 and run out of perks? Cause if you do, you probably love the game so much that it becomes a non-issue for you. Otherwise you'd probably just start a new character and try a new build, gender, options and so on.

[Dodece]

Reaching level fifty for the vast majority of players is going to be somewhere aroung the hundred hour mark, and it also so happens to be around the point where novel content begins to become exhausted. There really is no point in populating an endgame. That only a terribly small minority is going to indulge in. It isn't so much a cap as it is ensuring that everyone can participate. You can power on if you like, and still get stronger as a consequence, but why should other players have their access to this content cut off, because you can't employ a little self control.

What part of this being a sandbox eludes people, because they let you unlock every perk by the time you reach level fifty. Doesn't mean you have to avail yourself of those perks. There really isn't any good reason why you can't raise your own bar, and tell yourself something like. I can't unlock that particular perk until level one hundred, and as for the games difficulty that is entirely in your hands as well. You can handicap yourself to keep the content at a level you enjoy. Why exactly do you need your hand held.

I suppose my bias is partly due to when I started gaming. I got used to creating novel conditions for myself. You get real good at a shooter. Well then you give yourself a speed run challenge, or you don't allow yourself to use certain items, or you go for absolute perfection. I simply don't see why you need the developer to force you. When you can do such things for yourself. It isn't hard to overpower your character, or cripple your character.

If it is bragging rights you are concerned about. Honestly nobody really cares. Nobody is going to stand in awe if you reach level two hundred something. This isn't a competitive game. It isn't like doing so is going to give you an edge. It is just going to mean you are very anal for lack of a better term.

[^3Tinkles]

Originally posted by Dodece:

Reaching level fifty for the vast majority of players is going to be somewhere aroung the hundred hour mark, and it also so happens to be around the point where novel content begins to become exhausted. There really is no point in populating an endgame. That only a terribly small minority is going to indulge in. It isn't so much a cap as it is ensuring that everyone can participate. You can power on if you like, and still get stronger as a consequence, but why should other players have their access to this content cut off, because you can't employ a little self control.

What part of this being a sandbox eludes people, because they let you unlock every perk by the time you reach level fifty. Doesn't mean you have to avail yourself of those perks. There really isn't any good reason why you can't raise your own bar, and tell yourself something like. I can't unlock that particular perk until level one hundred, and as for the games difficulty that is entirely in your hands as well. You can handicap yourself to keep the content at a level you enjoy. Why exactly do you need your hand held.

I suppose my bias is partly due to when I started gaming. I got used to creating novel conditions for myself. You get real good at a shooter. Well then you give yourself a speed run challenge, or you don't allow yourself to use certain items, or you go for absolute perfection. I simply don't see why you need the developer to force you. When you can do such things for yourself. It isn't hard to overpower your character, or cripple your character.

If it is bragging rights you are concerned about. Honestly nobody really cares. Nobody is going to stand in awe if you reach level two hundred something. This isn't a competitive game. It isn't like doing so is going to give you an edge. It is just going to mean you are very anal for lack of a better term.

That is what I did for many of the games I've played, limited myself in one form or another to challenge myself and get more play out of it. Which.. is what I'm doing right now actually. Good post.

[paugus]

Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies:

You are both missing my point.

You're missing the point. You're making a weak semantics argument trying to prop up a bunch of weird rhetoric, when in reality, a requirement and a cap aren't the same.

[Warm Fuzzies™]

Originally posted by ^3Tinkles:

I understand where you are coming from. It's a sort of power creep that is relatively common in games. As of right now no one can really answer your question. Sure you can level past the 'maximum level' which is basically the level you have all the perks, assuming you have the endurance to reach that level. The highest I've reached so far was 219. On my 3rd character, currently on my fourth.

No idea how they are going to handle the perks and power creep in the future, it definitely will be hard to keep playing if we don't have more quests to do, plus it would be nice if perks were more spread out on levels, maybe some going into the very early triple digits. But, out of all the perks there are right now, I don't see a perk that is worth scaling into the higher levels. And even if there was, most won't reach that level because there isn't truly enough content. You literally have to grind fetch/kill/rescue missions from the minutemen, or do the BoS/RR repeat quests over and over. Which, in my opinion, if a game does that. It shows the lack of content (not saying Fo4 won't keep you entertained for 100-200 hours) but after that point, you sort of have to squeeze out the entertainment.


I also hope they make it in the future where if you want to rebuild in a settlement, that you can move all the settlers out of bounds while building, so that they don't get in your way. Sadly, that is the main reason for me making 4 characters -.-.

Well....at least someone understands where I am coming from.